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Discussion thread: Overpowered pokemon and combinations; After two years, my players found some nasty combos...
Topic Started: Nov 28 2017, 03:23 PM (3,092 Views)
Kaede11
Unlucky GM
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
So I was having a conversation about homebrewed poke-edges with leetman in this thread and we started to think about what could balance or unbalance the game. Basically we were hesitant of trying some new things because they could unbalance the existing system. But after a very loong campaign, I can say there are some things that are waaaay unbalanced.

I am sure lots of you have also found some overpowered combinations or things that you just think are "too much" let's discuss and share our experiences here!

Let me start with my experiences:

Some pokemon are just beasts compared to others. Look at Elektross. One of my players just caught a Tynamo and now it's a total killing-machine with no weaknesses. Levitate negates ground attacks. Storm Drain negates water attacks against allies and makes him absorb water. Additionally Lightining Rod does the same with electric moves. Simply a total beast.

Then Goodra. With Dry skin and Hydration, the creature is a god when it rains and Goodra's last ability is Absorb Force, which basically makes him resist the first physical attack it receives. One of my players uses it and knows protect. Combining this HP restoration when it's raining and its outstanding Special Defense + high HP, it's almost impossible to kill. Plus, it can hit quite hard too.

Then there are two classes which basically destroy the metagame. Mentor makes optimal every single pokemon your players catch. They just change their abilities and natures at will and don't even care about TP because there is basically no better use for them. Plus, they can teach powerful moves to their pokemon which is a big plus. Second in line, we have Commander which is arguably the best class in the game. It makes the whole team better and it's OP. Commander has the unique ability of making "Strike Again!" the most OP thing this game has seen. Basically when used by a Commander, the order becomes this:

Quote:
 
Strike Again!
[Orders]
Scene – Standard Action
Target: Your pokemon and Allied Pokemon
Effect: Choose up to 3 willing targets. They may immediately take an additional Standard Action to use an At-Will attack.


This is brutal. Also, they can easily pump up a team's evasion to 8 or 9 thanks to some orders, making some pokemons very hard to hit.

What do you think? Let's see your OP flavor!
Edited by Kaede11, Nov 28 2017, 03:24 PM.
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Kairos
Member Avatar
Researcher
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Here's something you wouldn't expect,

Sunkern + underdog + Mentor

I named him Flowey and he certainly lived up to his reputation.
Nature:Neutral
Final* Base stats:13hp 4atk 4 def 13 spc atk 4 spc def 12 speed. (See poke edges*)
Level up: One point in Def/Spc Def just because 5 is better than 4. 3 into speed to get that 15, Everything else into either HP or Spc atk. (mostly Spc Atk)
Abilities: Sun Blanket, Solar Power, drought.
Poke edges: Underdog's Strength, Realized Potential, Advanced Mobility (Levitate)
Moves:
1. Solar beam. 2.synthesis 3. Substitute. 4. Giga drain. 5. Sunny day. 6. Protect. 7.earth power.
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l33tmaan
Pokémon Trainer
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If we're talking about things that are busted, is Sniper/Beam Cannon Octillery really supposed to dish out as much damage as it does with so little work?
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Giant2005
Pokémon Trainer
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Basically anything with Duelist is OP - their ability to always roll an 11 means that they can cause basically any status effect they want at will with certain Pokemon. A Ducklett for example with high speed guarantees victory in any 1v1 battle, as long as the target is susceptible to Flying Moves; due to their Auto-Flinching Air Cutter.
Some Pokemon that aren't undefeatable like the Ducklett; still combo better with Duelist than they perhaps should. Such as the Binnacle that gets a STAB enhanced, spammable, high damage Stone Edge that auto-crits, coupled with even bigger crits from having Sniper.
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Kaede11
Unlucky GM
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Giant2005
Nov 28 2017, 10:59 PM
Basically anything with Duelist is OP - their ability to always roll an 11 means that they can cause basically any status effect they want at will with certain Pokemon. A Ducklett for example with high speed guarantees victory in any 1v1 battle, as long as the target is susceptible to Flying Moves; due to their Auto-Flinching Air Cutter.
Some Pokemon that aren't undefeatable like the Ducklett; still combo better with Duelist than they perhaps should. Such as the Binnacle that gets a STAB enhanced, spammable, high damage Stone Edge that auto-crits, coupled with even bigger crits from having Sniper.
I guess that ducklett would not work in my game because we are using playtests and flinching only lowers initiative and makes the pokemon vulnerable for one round. It would be good, but I guess it would not be "auto-win"
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Giant2005
Pokémon Trainer
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Kaede11
Nov 29 2017, 04:05 AM
Giant2005
Nov 28 2017, 10:59 PM
Basically anything with Duelist is OP - their ability to always roll an 11 means that they can cause basically any status effect they want at will with certain Pokemon. A Ducklett for example with high speed guarantees victory in any 1v1 battle, as long as the target is susceptible to Flying Moves; due to their Auto-Flinching Air Cutter.
Some Pokemon that aren't undefeatable like the Ducklett; still combo better with Duelist than they perhaps should. Such as the Binnacle that gets a STAB enhanced, spammable, high damage Stone Edge that auto-crits, coupled with even bigger crits from having Sniper.
I guess that ducklett would not work in my game because we are using playtests and flinching only lowers initiative and makes the pokemon vulnerable for one round. It would be good, but I guess it would not be "auto-win"
That is true, the playtest fixes a lot of the issues, but it also adds a lot of issues of its own. Most notably, the duelist combined with the playtest version of a Mienfoo results in a whole bunch of free struggle attacks each round without having to rely on the randomness of dice due to the new potential that comes from Duelist combined with Combo Striker.
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Dark Shadow
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Reploid
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Giant2005
Nov 29 2017, 06:18 AM
Most notably, the duelist combined with the playtest version of a Mienfoo results in a whole bunch of free struggle attacks each round without having to rely on the randomness of dice due to the new potential that comes from Duelist combined with Combo Striker.
Well, only one guaranteed one. Since Expend Momentum only makes the next die roll an 11, and you need to wait until the next round to use it again.
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Couch
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I'd agree that Mentor makes the whole team better in that you no longer have to spend lots of money on finding move tutors, but in my experience after having played one through a full campaign, it doesn't actually make you much better relative to your teammates. Barring certain Pokemon like Lucario that are TP hogs, you're not going to end up using all of your TP by the end of a campaign, so the main selfish benefits that a Mentor gets are an extra move slot and an extra tutor move slot. These are certainly nice, but again, only certain Pokemon have the movepool diversity to really get mileage out of them since the base movepool is 6 instead of 4.

Duelist is massively overpowered for a large number of reasons, not just the 11-rolling. In the lategame where everything should reliably have 6 Evasion or more in at least one category, having +3 Accuracy/Evasion against the targeted enemy matters quite a lot. You get nine different things to spend Momentum on, six of which don't require AP, which is a much greater variety of choices than any other class gets for what to do moment-by-moment in a League battle.

Really, at least two or three more classes probably should be built like Duelist so that a typical trainer's League turn doesn't degenerate into "I use Focused and Brutal Training on my active Pokemon" over and over. As it stands, it stands out as the only class to give you such an array of useful options, and they're all good options.

As far as broken Pokemon: Carbink. Clear Body and Simple, Ancient Power/Earth Power/Moonblast for perfect at-will coverage and making use of Simple in the former, Reflect/Light Screen/Stealth Rock for defense. You need Brutal Training to get Ancient Power to trigger semi-reliably, though, and being a Beauty Expert for Serene Grace wouldn't hurt, which also improves Moonblast's flexibility via Fabulous Max. Beauty Expert or Dancer and Juggler is the optimal combination here: teach Carbink some Dance moves that crank up its stats or use effect range gimmickry and a PP Up on Ancient Power to max out all of them, then use Juggler to Baton Pass those ramped-up stats onto another Pokemon of your choice.
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TIFFD
Pokémon Trainer
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Taskmaster/Ace Trainer with six nine injury Pokemon with at least 12 AP in your back pocket for Perseverance and Press On! makes for a scary tanky team.

Yes, you lose 50% HP, and if you don't keep AP in your back pocket to prevent the Pokemon from dying through the use of Perseverance, you'll permanently lose the Pokemon, but...

+1 Crit/Effect/Evasion
+5 Init/Base DR
Immunity to ALL Loss of HP Effects, including moves
+1 Type resistance

All of which gets doubled once they hit their effective 50% (really 0%, but factor in spending 1 AP on Press On! that you are going to spend)

Top it off with Enduring Soul for Vigor to prevent Massive Damage Injury, if that should ever occur, AND Endure, for added resilience.

Though, to be fair, I can't see this being run as a PC. Taskmaster is really a horrid class to RP as once you consider the lore implications, and that's before you consider going to the extremes this build suggests.

If you want even more tanky fun... run Chef on top of that, and drop in three dumplings with whatever berry effects you want, although I'd stay away from Leftovers and avoid doing HP gains at points that might accidentally put you at risk of gaining more than one Injury in a single battle by going over that 0% hump. This also has the benefit of allowing you to cook Hearty Meals for bonus AP to give you some spare room to play with some other AP costing feats.

Alternatively, run double Stat Ace: Defense and Special Defense for even more tankiness.

To further break this, run an Eelektross with Levitate, a Bronzong with Heatproof/Levitate/Sacred Bell, Electric types with Magnet Rise, and other Pokemon with very few weaknesses (the mentioned Pokemon have 0 Weaknesses when not going up against Mold Breaker, while Poison/Dark, Normal, and Ghost/Dark have one super effective weakness, and Water/Ground has a single hyper effective weakness.) Enjoy all those not very effective attacks against you while you work on ways to whittle them down. Might I suggest Weather effects, Vortexes, Poison, and Burns?

...Now, on the complete OTHER end of the spectrum, if you are running the Playtest Packet...

Stat Ace: Attack. Then run six Pokemon with Pure Power/Huge Power. There IS enough for a full team, as it includes the following:

Wigglytuff, Medicham, Azumarill, Diggersby, Ledian, Marowak (through a Thick Club), Conkeldurr, Pyroar, Mega Mawile, Tapu Bulu.

Want even more fun? Observe that the first six Pokemon on that list are also Underdogs. And Gurdurr, Conkeldurr's pre-evolution, and Litleo, Pyroar's pre-evolution, are underdogs as well. That's +6 Attack before accounting for the +2 Every 10 levels that the Pokemon get. At Level 70, including Ace Trainer and underdog edges, they were running about 28 Base Attack with zero Underdog investment into attack, no +Attack Natures, and no Vitamins. And it's not a bad team to begin with - you do have a decent spread of typings and attacks, and at that amount of base attack, even tanky pokemon will feel the hits as long as you don't hit resistances, and put in at least some stat points into attack. And you still have plenty of class slots to work with.

Of particular note, Conkeldurr is particularly dangerous, as not only does he have Huge Power, but Iron Fist, Sheer Force, AND Hustle for...well, a whole lot of damage potential if you manage to fix his accuracy.

On a side note, it's much harder to pull this off going Special Attack Ace, though, as there isn't enough Pokemon running Sorcery to pull a full team. It includes:

Delphox, Mismagius, Female Meowstic, and Azelf. That's it. And only Braixen maintains Sorcery to run Underdog on. Plus three of them are psychics and one is a legendary so it's a pretty lopsided team.
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l33tmaan
Pokémon Trainer
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TIFFD
Nov 29 2017, 03:52 PM
All that stuff just to say Conkeldurr has Huge Power
I know it's not as bonkers in the playtest, but jeez, what a decision.
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