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[PTU] Aura Warrior
Topic Started: Jun 9 2017, 03:08 PM (1,253 Views)
Fenrisulfr
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Sadistic Absol
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In case that's not clear by the Core's language. Here's an example:
Arm Thrust is DB 2 hitting 5 times is equivalent to a DB of 10 (2*5). If you have Technician and Fighting STAB the new DB is 14 when hitting 5 times (2*5+2+2).
Using God's Fist it becomes DB 21 (14*1.50) and using THDF it now becomes a DB of 28 (14*2).
This DB is the highest DB counted on the list in the Core coming in at a whopping 8d12+80+ATK! with an average of about 270 damage+ATK per use. So with 30 ATK we can assume that max damage assuming you took Martial Artist with Technician and Fighting STAB is around 300 Damage per attack once per scene if it's a Neutral hit.

The drawbacks are draining 3AP minimum; a Full + Swift Action.
I feel like using such a move would leave the trainer vulnerable? tripped? or something like an Exhaust? After using something that outclasses the highest DB move in the game (Explosion DB 25 or 27 with STAB).

It still bothers me a bit balance-wise, but I think that might just be me. The target can still get out of it by: Teleporting, using Protect or King's Shield; Ally Switching with a Ghost Type, using Kinesis to make it miss, using Endure, ect. There are some ways around it, so it's not a "Guaranteed OHKO".

This may become an issue if a PC tries to use this on a Boss or a PC uses it on a Boss. kind of makes the scene a little lack luster and soon your character will be nicknamed Five-Punch Man. I can't imagine what would happen on a Super-Super Effective hit...

On a playtesting note, I'm ran into the worst case scenario for the user for this attack. Let's say, User and Target have ~ equal ATK and Def respectively, so stats nullify each other, both are Trainers. Imagine using it and the opponent uses Counter back and adds Endure (Free Action) to make sure he doesn't Faint. It halves the damage taking off about 135 of said 270 damage from before. Target Trainer immediately deals out ~ 270 Damage, no DR or Resistances Applied to soften the blow. That is a huge problem for the user who is now either dead or severely injured. So food for thought.

Whew, I think I went a bit overboard with this post.
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Xavion
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Don't forget THDF makes it an autocrit, so it'll actually be 16d12+160+ATK as the die roll will be doubled.
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l33tmaan
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See, this is why I posted it here - I had the feeling I was missing some shenanigans that would boost the DB up higher than anticipated. I didn't want it to go beyond 20 DB even with God's Fist. Let me crack open my Core and do some tweaking... Hey, where is Fighting Expertise, anyway?

Okay, God's Fist now takes effect BEFORE STAB or Technician, and using it with Skill Link now Slows the user. THDF also makes the user Vulnerable. You'll still royally fuck up someone's day, but now you should try and make sure they don't have friends nearby to smack you.

So now let's look at the formula:
Arm Thrust + Skill Link = DB 10
God's Fist (THDF) * DB 10 = DB 20
DB 20 + STAB + Technician = DB 24


NEW FORMULA:
Arm Thrust + Skill Link = DB 10
God's Fist * DB 10 = DB 15
DB 15 + STAB + Technician = DB 19

Look at that, now it's a little weaker than Explosion. You'll have to Slow/Vulnerable yourself, Drain 3 AP, use a Full Action and a Swift Action, PLUS it doesn't take effect against the other guy until YOUR next turn. I think it's toned down a bit.
NOTE: Don't use on Dark pokemon unless you want to turn them into a fine paste.

Wait, you also bring up a solid point with Counter. Do you use Counter when you get hit by the attack, or when you take damage from God Fist? If it's the latter, then I have a hard time wrapping my head around you transferring internal damage back to your attacker 10 seconds after he's hit you.
My workaround for this is that you CAN counter the Arm Thrust or whatever move you're hit with, but you ONLY counter with normal damage from the move unless you are ALSO a God Fist user... which is unlikely. But then your kung fu would truly be stronger. For example, Countering the damage formula above would only result in countering a DB 14 move unless you have God Fist.

Okay, double God's Fist damage is just too much alongside the auto-crit. Now you can drain 1 AP to not be Vulnerable after THDF.
Edited by l33tmaan, Jun 12 2017, 09:51 AM.
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l33tmaan
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Fenrisulfr
Jun 12 2017, 12:29 AM
On a playtesting note, I'm ran into the worst case scenario for the user for this attack. Let's say, User and Target have ~ equal ATK and Def respectively, so stats nullify each other, both are Trainers. Imagine using it and the opponent uses Counter back and adds Endure (Free Action) to make sure he doesn't Faint. It halves the damage taking off about 135 of said 270 damage from before. Target Trainer immediately deals out ~ 270 Damage, no DR or Resistances Applied to soften the blow. That is a huge problem for the user who is now either dead or severely injured.
You mean like this?
Spoiler: click to toggle
Edited by l33tmaan, Jun 12 2017, 09:43 AM.
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Dark Shadow
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Reploid
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l33tmaan
Jun 12 2017, 08:56 AM
Hey, where is Fighting Expertise, anyway?
It's under Type Expertise in the Core rulebook. It's the feature that allows you to get STAB on specific types of moves that you have enough of.
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Xavion
Pokémon Trainer
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l33tmaan
Jun 12 2017, 08:56 AM
See, this is why I posted it here - I had the feeling I was missing some shenanigans that would boost the DB up higher than anticipated. I didn't want it to go beyond 20 DB even with God's Fist. Let me crack open my Core and do some tweaking... Hey, where is Fighting Expertise, anyway?

Okay, God's Fist now takes effect BEFORE STAB or Technician, and using it with Skill Link now Slows the user. THDF also makes the user Vulnerable. You'll still royally fuck up someone's day, but now you should try and make sure they don't have friends nearby to smack you.

So now let's look at the formula:

Arm Thrust + Skill Link = DB 10
God's Fist (THDF) * DB 10 = DB 20
DB 20 + STAB + Technician = DB 24

Look at that, now it's a little weaker than Explosion. You'll have to Slow/Vulnerable yourself, Drain 3 AP, use a Full Action and a Swift Action, PLUS it doesn't take effect against the other guy until YOUR next turn. I think it's toned down a bit.
NOTE: Don't use on Dark pokemon unless you want to turn them into a fine paste.

Wait, you also bring up a solid point with Counter. Do you use Counter when you get hit by the attack, or when you take damage from God Fist? If it's the latter, then I have a hard time wrapping my head around you transferring internal damage back to your attacker 10 seconds after he's hit you.
My workaround for this is that you CAN counter the Arm Thrust or whatever move you're hit with, but you ONLY counter with normal damage from the move unless you are ALSO a God Fist user... which is unlikely. But then your kung fu would truly be stronger. For example, Countering the damage formula above would only result in countering a DB 14 move unless you have God Fist.
Well, that does limit things, highest I can see now is 24d12+210+ATK, from a Sniper and Type Gem boosted version.

Counter does require you to use it on being hit, but it only does hit point loss back if the target doesn't faint.

That and Sniper is a stupid choice class wise so you'd need to build so your mons can give it to you, as the main way to get it as a trainer is from the Marksman class which is mostly long range weapon boosting things.
Edited by Xavion, Jun 12 2017, 10:00 AM.
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l33tmaan
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Did you account for God's Fist & THDF being nerfed as well?
Edited by l33tmaan, Jun 12 2017, 10:19 AM.
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Fenrisulfr
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Sadistic Absol
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@Xavion, my Damage Calcs were with Crit damage added, I just forgot to show the dice roll.

I assumed that counter would activate once it dealt the damage, and I added Endure from Roughneck Class and Counter from Martial Artist, which could be a possible combination (or a worst case scenario for the God Fist user).

Well, transferring internal damage, as long as it's physical, is something that Counter can do. In Pokemon terms, Counter is merely absorbing and enduring the damage and then sending it back two-fold by using energy, not necessarily just punching back. Think "Bide" except for physical moves and only takes one turn to charge.
(Not like the anime where Counter can be literally dodging an attack, receiving no damage and dealing the possible damage back anyway)

DB 19 seems a lot more reasonable. And assuming the PC or NPC isn't made specifically for using this one attack, like by taking Marksman purely for Sniper, the damage is fine (even if they did it would be a detriment during large battles or if the move fails). The Scene Frequency makes more sense now and the entire thing feels a lot more balanced.

A couple other things with the delayed damage. If the target has Reflect available, after the initial hit; so, The user uses God Fist and then the target's Pokemon uses Reflect after the hit, does Reflect activate still since the damage is delayed but the attack was made before? or would it have to be already active? (My bet is already active).

Also, I have a question for Five-Strike moves in general that may relate to this. For Sturdy Pokemon, would Five-Strike moves bypass Sturdy? In the VG, multiple hit moves like Double Kick, Rock Blast and such bypass Sturdy because it is multiple hits and not a single "move" per say. But in PTU it acts as a DB multiplier (not Double-Strike moves since they are two separate attacks, but the question is the same for those). Thoughts?
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l33tmaan
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Fenrisulfr
Jun 12 2017, 10:41 AM
Well, transferring internal damage, as long as it's physical, is something that Counter can do. In Pokemon terms, Counter is merely absorbing and enduring the damage and then sending it back two-fold by using energy, not necessarily just punching back. Think "Bide" except for physical moves and only takes one turn to charge.

A couple other things with the delayed damage. If the target has Reflect available, after the initial hit; so, The user uses God Fist and then the target's Pokemon uses Reflect after the hit, does Reflect activate still since the damage is delayed but the attack was made before? or would it have to be already active? (My bet is already active).
That's true, but I'd still hate for Aura Warriors to get completely blown apart by Counter. Looking at the move description, it says it triggers "when the user is hit by a Damaging Physical Attack". Even with God Fist, you're still being hit with the attack, the damage just delays a turn. Since you Counter before God Fist takes effect, I'd argue that it wouldn't factor that in, but I recognize that this is a bit of a grey area and could be up to DM interpretation.

With regards to Reflect - the target does need to already have it up in most cases. I think the most notable thing about God's Fist is to consider what that looks like: Some dude punches you with all of his might... and nothing happens. If I were the guy getting hit, I wouldn't know what to think, especially not enough to have my guard up afterwards. But it will still cause the user to take half damage. However, if the guy getting hit knows what's about to happen, then they would be able to throw up Reflect after getting hit and before the damage kicks in. But they'd have to know they were getting hurt in the first place.
Edited by l33tmaan, Jun 12 2017, 11:22 AM.
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Jarulso
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Resident LIBRE WRASSLER
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Oh, thanks for pointing that out Dark. May need to have a word with folks RE: STAB. We've made oopsies in our campaign, lol.

Reading's awesome!

Also Fenri: PTU uses Five Strike as a single source of damage, so Sturdy can fully nullify it if enough damage is triggered to use it.
Edited by Jarulso, Jun 12 2017, 12:40 PM.
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