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| [PTU] FF5-style Class System | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 18 2017, 06:32 PM (819 Views) | |
| l33tmaan | May 18 2017, 06:32 PM Post #1 |
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Pokémon Trainer
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I'd honestly be a little surprised if no one's thought of this before, so let me know if I'm just repeating what's already been done. I was playing FF5 lately, and I was reminded of why it's my favorite FF game: The job system is just so damn fun. Being able to use whatever class you want and eventually combine pretty much any ability into a single class was way more fun than anything else in the series. Because I think it would be fairly easy to adapt to PTU and would allow for a different style of progression, I'm going to baselessly slap together this system based upon no actual game experience whatsoever. If you do decide to try it, let me know how it goes, especially with the less battle-oriented classes. First off, you're going to have to come up with the reason why they can be any class. Maybe the PCs are special snowflakes, or maybe you'll just handwave it and tell them to go with it. It's your call.
Trainer [Class] Prerequisites: Level 1 Static Effect: This class has no Features of its own, but instead can use any Feature from any other class that you know. This class can use up to 6 total Features at once, which must be chosen when "switching" to this class and cannot be changed until you switch to another class and back to Trainer. And that's pretty much it. Unless I've made any glaring oversights, it's really that simple. Thoughts? Feedback? Criticism? Am I the cancer killing PTU? Edited by l33tmaan, May 23 2017, 08:54 AM.
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| phillistein | May 18 2017, 09:57 PM Post #2 |
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Pokémon Trainer
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I adore FF5's class system and anything similar to it (ie Bravely Default, FF13 on a good day) but I don't get the point of not just doing Trainer the entire time. Can you buy stuff for other classes while you're not in them? Honestly I can see this being super rough starting out because you're either using Trainer and being a basically-standard character or you're in a single class and not as capable or flexible. Locking into a single class is cool in theory, but it falls apart when you think about how PTU is built around actively mixing classes, since you become so one-note. It also doesn't allow the bizarre class combos of, say, Monk/WhiteMage from FF5 that you wouldn't be able to DO unless you're in Trainer. Even while an FF5 character is learning a new class, they can still have other class abilities set as their secondary, and the only way to do that is to live in the Trainer class. My critique would be to maybe brainstorm something more akin to a gestalt build like what some people have done in, like, DnD 3.5 or whatever. My understanding of that was that the characters would basically have two level progressions. So you could do something similar to THAT, where people would maybe only have two "builds" managing and switching between them wouldn't be as prohibitive. I think? |
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| l33tmaan | May 19 2017, 09:45 AM Post #3 |
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Pokémon Trainer
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Oh man, that's totally the kind of oversight I was talking about, I completely forgot that you could do that. Shows how far I've gotten in the past day. In that case, why not just allow any class to use 2 features from any other classes you know? This way you could do things like a Hobbyist/Backpacker combo so you can be the ULTIMATE SKILLMONKEY for 20 minutes. Seriously man, I'm kicking myself for forgetting about that. I suppose I also need to consider that the maximum amount of class features a trainer can have at once is, what, 25-ish? A level 50 trainer in this system would only be able to access up to 8 features at once. Hmm. Not sure what to do about that, since who actually needs more than 8 features in a single Scene? Hmmm. I'm not totally keen on the idea of making it more like gestalt characters, though. Isn't the whole point of that system that you have weakened progression in 2 classes but you have the versatility of those 2 classes? Isn't that kind of analogous to this? |
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| phillistein | May 19 2017, 10:44 AM Post #4 |
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Pokémon Trainer
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Could just give access to more active classes at once based on level, kinda timed similarly to skill cap increases? Then as you get better you can have more features from more classes active, so by the end you've got something CLOSE to running all your classes and features, but not quite. Like have it expand to up to 3 or 4 features from any other class you know, or have it be like "you can now have two classes at once" or something. Yeah I mean the gestalt stuff is also kinda overpowered in DnD style stuff, but that sort of FF13-style swapping could be feasible if you allowed a degree of switching between scenes and not as an extended action. But it's also super complicated, so... |
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| l33tmaan | May 19 2017, 12:17 PM Post #5 |
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Pokémon Trainer
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My intention was that you could switch between Scenes, but that could just stem from my own inexperience with PTU. I figured 10 minutes between each scene was normal, but you have a point, I should clarify/change it from an Extended Action to anytime you're not in a Scene. As to your first suggestion, here's how I interpreted it at first glance: -From level 1-10, you can use 2 free Features with any class. -From level 11-20, you can use 3 free Features with any class. -From level 21-30, you can use 4 free Features with any class. -From level 31-40, you can use 5 free Features with any class. -From level 41-50, you can use 6 free Features with any class. All this takes is a minor tweak to Trainer so it can use any 6 features instead of 8. In practice, a level 9 Trainer would be able to use 8 Features at once anyway, just like now, but they become more powerful as you level up until they have a whopping 12 Features. Is this sort of what you meant? Obviously the numbers can be tweaked if needed. |
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| phillistein | May 19 2017, 01:26 PM Post #6 |
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Pokémon Trainer
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Yeah, that level progression was roughly what I had in mind. But I mean if you're tossing features out so much, it might end up being kind of overpowered at later levels? I have no idea how ridiculous higher level play is or if that'd be par for the course against stuff that late, but having like 4 features from any classes at level 21 is still enough to get most of the stuff someone would WANT from a class anyway. I think? I'm probably nowhere near as experienced with PTU as you think I am. And now that I think about it, if you get to drown in that many features, would it get awkward if you don't have enough skill edges to unlock classes you care about? Like it could be real frustrating if someone just has to dump features on classes they're only taking because they're not high enough level to get later stuff in classes they're actually using for their build. I'd say maybe try building a few characters up to some level with one feature per level to see how hard it is to actually pull off weird/diverse class combinations from a perspective of timely access. |
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| l33tmaan | May 19 2017, 03:53 PM Post #7 |
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Pokémon Trainer
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Good idea, some experimental classmaking with this system is the way to go. I'll try and write up some random characters when I get home. With regards to it being overpowered at late levels - well, that's how gestalt works too, doesn't it? The number of free features you get definitely needs some looking at. The real OP aspect of this system isn't in having a bunch of features, but in being able to combine them pretty much however you want. I need to make some characters to confirm this, but that seems nearly as exploitable as it does in FF5. However, let's look at skills now. A trainer gets a minimum of 32 Edges. There are a total of 17 skills, each with 6 ranks, for a total of 102 ranks. Assuming we use every Edge for skills (unlikely), we can max out up to 6 skills, since I assume one of the ones you're maxing is the Adept skill you took at character creation. Since it's unlikely every player would use every edge to boost their skills, let's assume they only max 4, for the sake of example. I'll throw some together right here for a tough guy bruiser: - Athletics - Combat - Focus - Intimidate Assuming they focus on these skills, what are their options? - Ace Trainer - Coordinator - Duelist - Enduring Soul - Rider - Taskmaster - Stat Ace - Type Ace (Fire, Poison, Dragon, Ghost, Psychic, Electric, Rock, Steel, Fighting, Ice, or Water) - Athlete - Martial Artist - Musician (as long as they have Novice Charm to get into the class they can progress with Focus) - Provocateur - Roughneck - Telekinetic - Telepath (as long as they have Novice Intuition to get into the class they can progress with Focus) As you can see, we have a lot to work with, and I haven't even looked at anything outside of Core. I'm not worried about being pigeonholed into a class you don't like. However, I feel like players might feel obligated to take Skill Edges over others just so they can qualify for more classes. I think this can be addressed simply by getting a free Skill Edge every 10 levels. Feedback? |
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| l33tmaan | May 19 2017, 07:58 PM Post #8 |
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Pokémon Trainer
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Alright, I'm finally home, so let's make a couple characters and see how this works. We'll start at level 10. For the sake of comparison, they have the same skills: 5 in Perception/General Education/Intuition, 4 Acrobatics and 3 in Combat/Guile. They both also have Mystic Senses, but the Homebrewed Trainer also has Acrobat, since they got to use their free Skill Edge to match the Normal Trainer. Now let's look at their classes: Normal Trainer Homebrewed Trainer Well, that was fun. I'll save my thoughts on this for later, so as to avoid tainting any feedback. Did I miss anything? Edited by l33tmaan, May 19 2017, 07:59 PM.
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| Paperblade | May 20 2017, 11:22 AM Post #9 |
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Pokémon Trainer
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Your math on skills is off, since it doesn't account for the default skill rank being 2, meaning only an investment of 4 edges is needed to master, as opposed to 6. That means a character can master up to 8 skills, with 3 edges left over, assuming you never take bonus edges (either through feats or from the 5/10/20/30/40 advancements). 4*8 = 32, 3 skills ranked up at character creation, then 32 edges. I'm not sure how this changes the rest of the class options though, other than to give you a few more options Although speaking of skill edges, what would you do about skill edges granted by a class (mostly Hobbyist, but also Researcher). Would these be taken away when not using that class, and if so, would you not be able to use it to qualify for other classes? Edited by Paperblade, May 20 2017, 11:26 AM.
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| l33tmaan | May 21 2017, 09:44 AM Post #10 |
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Pokémon Trainer
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What? I totally accounted for that, didn't I? I thought I did. Now that I look at it, I didn't. Oops. If you can max out 8 skills, that's nearly half of them. We might not need to give them any free Skill Edges at all, if that's the case. As I showed above, just focusing on 4 gives you a ton of options to work with, and I would argue that only improves things for our Homebrewed Trainer. Regarding the Hobbyist skills - the skills come from the Feature itself, so you choose (permanently) what skills will be boosted by the Feature, and whenever you have that Feature active (whether you're in the Hobbyist class or not), you gain that skill boost. Same with edges and the like - everything is bound to the Feature itself, including stat boosts Obviously, you can't use these to qualify for other classes since you don't have access to that skill or edge 24/7, only under certain conditions. |
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