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Alternative Choice Item Rules; And Assault Vest
Topic Started: Apr 9 2017, 03:13 PM (588 Views)
Muted_ReDead
Pokémon Trainer
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
In the video-games, certain held items are considered staples in the competitive meta due to their powerful effects and popularity. These items include: the Choice items, which boost a certain stat a large amount at the cost of being locked into a single move until being switched out; and the Assault Vest, which increases your Special Defense by a large amount at the cost of only being able to use non-status moves (simply having a status move in your moveset would negate the effect of AV entirely).

Due to nature of move frequency in PTA vs. the video games, these items were not transferred over to PTA, as doing so without changing the way they worked would mean being locked into a weak At-Will move, an EOT frequency move (as though you were using a poor man's Hyper Beam), or using a powerful Battle or Center frequency move and absolutely nothing else. It was either that, or make up some new rules. PTA took the coward's way out and excluded them entirely (I still love you PTA, please don't hurt me!).

Meanwhile, PTU took charge and made their own rules: instead of locking the pokemon into a single move, they simply made the holder "suppressed," meaning (for those who aren't familiar with PTU terms) the holder cannot benefit from PP-ups, At-Will moves become EOT and EOT and Scene x2 moves become Scene x1. In other words, instead of locking a pokemon into a single move, it limits the entire moveset as a whole whilst hitting harder or moving faster. Assault Vest was apparently never added, however.

These rules are fine and dandy, but I personally don't feel that the drawbacks of these items should be changed in this way; in my provided alternative ruleset below (for both PTU AND PTA, as the latter doesn't even have choice items in their core book), the Choice Items will become more powerful choices while having unique drawbacks more similar to that in the game, and also provide existence to the Assault Vest. This is my first time officially homebrewing something, so here goes nothing:

Rules that would apply to both PTA and PTU:
Spoiler: click to toggle

PTA:
Spoiler: click to toggle

PTU:
Spoiler: click to toggle


I have very little experience with PTU so I wasn't so bold with making too many changes with the nature of choice items in that edition. That being said, I was bold enough to make the PTA counterparts fairly threatening because I wanted them to feel like something powerful enough for a league champion to consider using.

At level 70, for example, a pokemon with 14 STAB would add 42 damage. Meanwhile, if I simply made the effects identical to PTU and the video-games, the same pokemon would have to have 84 in their attack stat to reach the same output granted by +3 STAB. On the other hand, you're still restricted to three moves on your entire moveset, so that player will have to choose their moves carefully, accurately simulating the way moves are chosen carefully in the heat of competitive battles in the video-games. I didn't want to add 3 STAB to their initiative, however, because that would just be ridiculous, even with the move restrictions. I still wanted to make it desirable over Quick Claw though, which is why I also gave it +2 STAB and a +1 speed evasion for good measure.

In the games, the Choice Items (and Assault Vest) are powerful items available only in the post-game, and is best used in post-game content (Battle Tree, Battle Maison etc.). Similarly, GMs are advised to not make these items available until the players are approaching end-game content, especially if you're in PTA where the effects of the Choice Items are arguably more powerful than they are in PTU. Even in Campaigns not centered around the league at all, these effects will still be powerful enough to be worth considering, even in light of their relatively steep price tag.

And finally, while no Defense alternative to Assault Vest exists, the GM may homebrew an item that is identical to the Assault Vest but with Defense instead of Special Defense. Just be sure to give it the same restrictions as AV.

EDIT: A small reminder: these rules are subject to change when given feedback, as this is only a Work-In-Progress.

So! What do you guys think of my first attempt at a homebrew?
Edited by Muted_ReDead, Apr 20 2017, 10:41 PM.
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skigloves
Pokémon Trainer
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Nice write up, but there are a few problems I have with it.

First and foremost. You seem to misunderstand what the Assault Vest does. Any pokémon holding an Assault Vest cannot use status class moves, but in exchange they gain 50% bonus Special Defence. In the games, this works exactly like taunt, if your pokémon is holding an assault vest and you try to command them to use a status class move, the game simply won't let you. If your pokémon is about to use a status class move that turn, but obtains an Assault Vest before it can act, the move fails. Trying to use status class moves while holding an assault vest won't disable the item's positive effect, so a pokémon holding an assault vest simply cannot use status class moves no need for any weird flinching clause or anything, they can't do it so they can't do it.

As for the choice items, restricting a pokémon to only three moves seems a bit pointless. The primary reason I dislike the book's choice items is because they create a completely different restriction to the one in game. While having access to only half of your natural move list at any given is a hefty price to pay, it is definitely closer to the original intent of the items while continuing to work in system. But I feel it isn't restrictive enough, a pokémon rarely needs all of their moves in any given encounter.

The primary reason the choice items were changed is so they could be shoehorned in to fit with the frequency system. All Scene, Daily and EOT moves cannot be used twice in a row and a pokémon locked into one move simply cannot operate half the time like that. If a pokémon has access to two moves, they can alternate between the moves and even if they chose two scene x2 moves they would likely last for the duration of most encounters. Providing a pokémon with three moves opens up one of the biggest restrictions choice items have, they could then reliably use utility and highly situational moves to support their chosen moves. Thus, with just 3 moves, the pokémon operates as effectively as any other. I definitely like the mind games of having to choose your moves before the you use your moves though, but that makes things much more awkward for players that are suddenly inflicted with choice items (via trick, etc) as they have to choose three moves right there and then to lock themselves into. Choosing your moves before you use them is interesting, but it also means you have to devise a method to manage or reveal hidden information (such as writing your choices down on a scrap of paper that you will keep hidden before the battle starts).

An effect that fixes those issues I have would be:

Whenever the holder uses a move, that move is "chosen". If a pokémon holding this item has two chosen moves, they cannot use moves that are not chosen. In exchange, the holder's default combat stage for [stat] is +2 instead of 0. Moves stop being chosen when the holder takes a breather or is switched out.
Edited by skigloves, Apr 18 2017, 09:41 AM.
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Muted_ReDead
Pokémon Trainer
[ *  *  *  *  * ]
Quote:
 
You seem to misunderstand what the Assault Vest does. Any pokémon holding an Assault Vest cannot use status class moves, but in exchange they gain 50% bonus Special Defence. In the games, this works exactly like taunt, if your pokémon is holding an assault vest and you try to command them to use a status class move, the game simply won't let you. If your pokémon is about to use a status class move that turn, but obtains an Assault Vest before it can act, the move fails. Trying to use status class moves while holding an assault vest won't disable the item's positive effect, so a pokémon holding an assault vest simply cannot use status class moves

Well, that's just my bad! In my defense despite the fact that I play the games a lot, I don't use Assault Vest very often, and whenever I did I wouldn't bother using a status move in the first place, for obvious reasons. I wasn't aware of what exactly would happen if you tried, but now I do! I did heavily rely on my own personal experience in making this rule-set.Though, in retrospect, I'm not sure why I added the flinch rule. I'm just gonna dump that rule and substitute it with a version more true to the games.

Quote:
 
The primary reason the choice items were changed is so they could be shoehorned in to fit with the frequency system. All Scene, Daily and EOT moves cannot be used twice in a row and a pokémon locked into one move simply cannot operate half the time like that.

Like I said in the OP, I have very little experience with PTU, and clearly its showing - I wasn't even aware that Scene and Daily moves couldn't be used twice in a row! It definitely would've helped to have that knowledge while writing this up. I did try reading everything I could in the PTU book before writing this, but clearly there are still some rules that escape me.

Quote:
 
If a pokémon has access to two moves, they can alternate between the moves and even if they chose two scene x2 moves they would likely last for the duration of most encounters. Providing a pokémon with three moves opens up one of the biggest restrictions choice items have, they could then reliably use utility and highly situational moves to support their chosen moves. Thus, with just 3 moves, the pokémon operates as effectively as any other.

I considered restricting them to 2 moves instead of 3, but I went with 3 because I'm more used to PTA where pokemon can have up to 14 moves, so being restricted to only 3 would still be a hefty limitation, and to me that seemed like a heavy restriction on its own. I am yet unused to a world where a pokemon's moveset consists of only 6 moves or less (aside from, ya' know, the real one), but now that I remember that such a world exists, I can see how having 3-out-of-6 moves is outrageous compared to the 1-out-of-4 in the games. In fact, I'm more than likely to take your advice and update that as well.

Quote:
 
I definitely like the mind games of having to choose your moves before the you use your moves though, but that makes things much more awkward for players that are suddenly inflicted with choice items (via trick, etc) as they have to choose three moves right there and then to lock themselves into.

Being caught off-guard with a sudden Choice Item Trick is an obstacle that players are able to overcome, but once again I see that 3 moves is a little too much, as even a support pokemon like Shuckle wouldn't be too bothered by having only half its moveset taken away. Not sure what you mean by "awkward," though. I don't think it would obstruct the pacing of the scene too much, especially if it were only 2.

Quote:
 
Choosing your moves before you use them is interesting, but it also means you have to devise a method to manage or reveal hidden information (such as writing your choices down on a scrap of paper that you will keep hidden before the battle starts).

My DM wouldn't have much issue with that, and neither would I if I were a DM. Maybe it's just a personal tolerance, but I don't see this issue of writing a quick note down. And I'm glad that you too like the idea of guessing and predictions - mind games are what pokemon is all about, after all!

Quote:
 
An effect that fixes those issues I have would be: Whenever the holder uses a move, that move is "chosen". If a pokémon holding this item has two chosen moves, they cannot use moves that are not chosen. In exchange, the holder's default combat stage for [stat] is +2 instead of 0. Moves stop being chosen when the holder takes a breather or is switched out.

While I can agree that 2 choices is overall more balanced than 3, I prefer having to make a choice as soon as you equip the item or when it is forced upon you. While I will concede that simply choosing as the fight progresses is better for pacing, I believe that choosing both moves before using puts the player in a position where they will need to think ahead to make the right move, moreso than they would be when choosing the moves as the turns come.

So, overall I've learned that 2 moves only is more balanced than 3 moves only, and that I'm not very used to PTU - on that note, I'm surprised there was no comment on my proposed PTA counterpart for Choice Items, and I honestly can't tell if that's because what I did for it was fine or if no one cares enough to comment on PTA homebrew...

Anyway, I'll edit the rules with some of your proposed solutions. Thanks for the response!
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