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Group Utility vs Fun
Topic Started: Jan 25 2017, 06:19 PM (890 Views)
TastyKudzu
Pokémon Trainer
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So I am the DM for a PTU group with 4 players. We've been going pretty well throughout our campaign but recently we've run into a little problem. 3 of the four trainers in our group took classes that make them or their pokemon much better in battle. (Juggler, Athlete, Hex Maniac, Tumbler, Aura Guardian) One of the trainers, the only female in the group, went more into poke-education, apothecary, breeding and medic edges, etc. While she isn't a powerhouse character in dishing out damage she is crucial to the party's success in combat due to her ability to create and use medicinal items (even using her AP for increased healing).

This had gone on for a while with no issues but then after a session in which our juggler had done exceptionally well (AOE attack vs multiple enemies into round trip into first blood AOE magnitude which cleared 4 enemies from 100-0) all the players were looking at where to spend their newly earned trainer levels and our juggler started saying how he wasn't going to take any passive abilities because trainers who just stood around in combat and applied active training to their pokemon were lame and didn't really add much. This not only upset the medic/breeder/poke-education/etc player because the player was inconsiderate but now she feels bad about the decisions she has made for her classes.

To further complicate this issue players want her to breed or re-balance their pokemon and for her to craft potions for them at the reduced cost but don't offer any non-combat services in return. They feel their combat contributions offset her using her class to do anything they need done. When one of them asked how much the breeding she provided them normally costs and I told them 15,000 poke (she's master level in the skill and it was a rare pokemon) they were all shocked but basically said "well glad I can get it for free" (partially because they're not really flush with cash at the moment.)

How do you address that everyone benefits from her classes but that they only choose things that give them cool abilities that make them the star in the moment. It's to the point that out of character she's told me that she doesn't want to breed, re-balance, craft, etc. for some of them. Is it unreasonable for her to charge them a discounted rate for breeding or to make some money on the side for the potions she crafts?
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Lockdown
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I SEEE YOUUUU
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Tell the player that she's under no obligation to help them beyond patching up their wounds for starters, and not even that if they're being particularly jerkish. Other than that, I'd recommend having a serious sit-down discussion with the other players about how they're treating her. This is a classic case of munchkins abusing a "pocket cleric".
Edited by Lockdown, Jan 25 2017, 07:19 PM.
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Eisen
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Pokémon Trainer
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Simply because a trainer has features that can help other trainers in the party, doesn't mean that she's obliged to do so. All that you need to do, is side with her in the protest. As she's a passive trainer who "just stands around in combat" and therefore "lame," obviously the other trainers don't require her assistance, so she's free to hoard the results of her breeding and item creation to herself. But, of course, she's still a party member, so attempts at taking it anyway are to be met with "You can't use that action against a PC," or whatever variant is preferred.

This is, however, an OOC problem and therefore not a terribly good idea to try to solve IC.
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l33tmaan
Pokémon Trainer
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Why would you try and piss off the only medic!?
Edited by l33tmaan, Jan 25 2017, 07:20 PM.
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Kian
Pokémon Trainer
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The problem is that one of the players seems to be a dumb jerk. Jerk because he went out of his way to belittle another player, dumb because he went after the support player that enables him to focus on the stuff he likes. There's not much to do in game that can fix that. Still, the first thing to do is to assure the medic player that she is not under any obligation to use her skills for other players. If the jerkass player has begun taking the medic for granted, let her charge him for services rendered, or refuse outright. We don't appreciate things until we lose them, after all.

I mean, this was always the medic's prerogative, she shouldn't have felt forced to do it in the first place. It's just normal for non-jerk players to want to help the party because they're a team.

I would also suggest telling the player that he was a jerk and that he should apologize. It's fine if he doesn't like passive abilities, but there's no reason to say that people that do are lame. Seriously, how old is he anyway?

Quote:
 
How do you address that everyone benefits from her classes but that they only choose things that give them cool abilities that make them the star in the moment.

This doesn't need to be addressed. This was working fine and everyone was having fun with this arrangement. What you need to address is the players not wanting to make everyone feel valued. Your medic player was happy as long as she felt that the rest appreciated what she did for them.
Edited by Kian, Jan 25 2017, 08:34 PM.
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Professor Scamander
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Pokémon Trainer
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As somebody who's currently playing a similar character (not a medic, but many of my features are out of combat, passive, or don't require my standard actions, and isn't specced to contribute to combat personally), it can feel a bit weird just saying 'I shift here' during my actions.

I have a few recommendations:

1) I'm echoing Lockdown. This sounds like a great opportunity to sit down as players, not characters, and talk about what's going on and why it makes you as a DM uncomfortable (if the players wants to speak up on their behalf, that's their prerogative). Even if groups aren't in the same optimization tiers, the goal is to have fun, and if you/the player aren't having fun because of those attitudes, then that's a problem that needs to be addressed. It'll probably be uncomfortable, but usually it works better than most things. Yay communication!

2) I'd recommend having a 'pool' of cash that everyone contributes to equally. How much they do so is up to them, but the bottom line is that all that money goes towards this PC's in battle healing. If anyone wants to purchase personal items out of their own pocket that's fine, but there's no reason for her to get behind on buying TMs for her mons because she has to use personal money to heal other people's stuff. My party uses this policy and it works wonderfully.

(side note, I'd recommend against having a policy where PC's just pay for whatever supplies end up being used for them or their mons in battle. This might lead to some players saying they don't want xyz healed because they don't want to pay for it, essentially telling the character what their actions can and cannot be as well as forcing the character to always be paying up front for stuff).

3) I've honestly never seen PCs charging their group more than crafting fee for items to turn out in any way a positive one. While there's logic to the argument that they should be making money, it just creates simmering animosity. Breeding I guess is similar. I've only ever seen it escalate the tensions and make people on every side of the issue more aggressive/resentful/dissatsfied/argumentative. That's anecdotal evidence of course, so take it with a grain of salt.

4) Find ways to make bred mon explicitly useful to the character. For instance, perhaps a bred mon will always inherently have a link to its breeder and can intercept attacks for her as a shift action that doesn't take command or something. Perks like that let everyone win and give her a bonus for helping her party.

Alternatively, you could make it so that its much harder for bred pokemon to catch up. If her rank is master than your mons are probably at a decent level.

5) Split the party up. If the three nonhealers find themselves without her (while she's doing something super important), they will quickly realize how important her services are that they've been taking for granted. Having to give up a command action to use that super heal will cause them to think a lot more carefully about keeping their mons alive.

6) Build encounters where she can have an active role outside of healbot. Find ways to let her use her skills. Maybe in one battle she needs to use Pokemon Education skills to manipulate an unown hive to spell out certain letters, causing powerful effects in battle (TIME slows opponents for one round, HIDE turns an ally invisible). Maybe there's a Dustox Swarm and she uses PokeEducation to activate specific lights that can manipulate the swarm's actions (splitting them up, moving them over hazards, getting them to use specific kinds of moves), based on what kinds of lights she turns on and off. With her other skills too, build encounters so that, if she doesn't feel meaningfully engaged, you provide those opportunities for her to shine.

But really, suggestion 1 is probably the one that I can't stress the most.
Edited by Professor Scamander, Jan 25 2017, 08:35 PM.
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OniLink64
Pokémon Trainer
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This is an (unfortunately) typical example of support players in games not getting enough appreciation. She is under no obligation to actually provide any services to the rest of the party. I believe the saying is, "They ignored my strategies. I ignored their screams." And no, I'm not a salty support player at all. Even a little bit.

Jokes aside though, just sit down with your players and talk about the situation. You're all there to have fun.
Edited by OniLink64, Jan 26 2017, 01:47 AM.
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The Black Glove
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A Man Of Heart
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Hate to echo Lockdown on this (kidding, he's a great GM), but I will agree. If this is an issue, talk to your players about it and have an open discussion about the problem. As a GM, it is your job to ensure a safe and fun environment in situations like this, and I can already tell you're doing a great job in that you came looking to solve the problem.
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Domo
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Kawaii Detective
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At very minimum, if you are crafting items for the whole party, the rest of the party should be paying the crafting costs for what you produce. The support player doesn't need to turn a profit, but services rendered = payment owed. Tutoring and breeding I personally usually offer for free to the rest of the party since that is something you can do at 0 cost, however if it is central to the character's concept, you may consider having NPCs coming to her for help and paying her in crafting scrap/extra eggs/etc. Reiterate that she's under no obligation to play animal husbandry for the rest of the party particularly with her daily limited features.

As far as character builds go however, let her reconsider and respec as if she chooses to. When one member of the party is on the complete opposite end of the spectrum, it's a problem that is difficult to fix GM side (besides, you know, not letting that happen in the first place, so sort of shame on you here). One of the things that's happened in Sequoia, though, is that Gyms offer unique [Orders] as rewards, which is something you could do to give her more powerful in-combat actions as a full support player, while not being necessarily that attractive to your murderhobos.
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