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| Double Strike/STAB/Crit; The crux of my confusion | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 20 2015, 11:41 PM (799 Views) | |
| Semicolonkid | Sep 20 2015, 11:41 PM Post #1 |
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Pokémon Trainer
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Alright, first I'd like to apologize, because I know this subject has been beaten to death. I hope you believe me when I say that I've just finished searching the past 5 years of posts on these forums for any mention of "double strike" in search for a definitive answer by a dev on what I'm about to ask, and I did not find a consensus or a clear enough answer. The core rulebook doesn't exactly get into the nitty-gritty of this either. It's quite clear on how you apply STAB, and it's clear on how you apply crits to a non-STAB move, but it is not clear on both. At least not to me. I have something using Double Kick that has STAB. I understand that I make two rolls, and if they both hit then the DB is doubled from the base of 3 to the base of 6. Then STAB is applied so it's DB 8 (2d8 + 10). Then you add attack. What I'd love to know is what happens if both of these moves hit but one of them crits. Because based on my aforementioned research, it seems one of two things is almost definitely true but I can't figure out which: Either A: You take your two rolls that hit, and double the DB to 6, as above. You apply STAB, bumping it up to DB 8. Then you account for the single crit, which adds the DB 3 to this roll, giving you a damage roll of DB 8 + DB 3 (2d8 + 10) + (1d6 + 5). Then attack. Or B: Exactly the same as above, except when you account for the crit, you add DB 5 instead of DB 3, because you have STAB, giving you an end result of DB 8 + DB 5 (2d8 + 10) + (1d8 + 8). The thing is, "A" doesn't really make sense to me because regular attacks allow you to take STAB/Technician/etc. into account in the crit, while this method would disregard that. But "B" doesn't totally sound right either because that would mean that if you crit twice, you ultimately end up applying STAB/technician/etc. up to three times in the whole calculation, which doesn't sound intended, given how Double Strike is worded to keep you from stacking those effects too much. This method also forces you to look at STAB before you're supposed to in the damage calculation workflow. Neither method makes total sense to me and I'd love to know which one, without a doubt, is correct (if either). tl;dr: If double strike hits twice and crits once, does the bonus crit damage add another instance of STAB/technician/etc? |
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| Kairose | Sep 21 2015, 07:15 AM Post #2 |
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Pokémon Trainer
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I've seen devs say two different things on how Double Strike Crits work, so I'm not sure what it's SUPPOSED to be, but this is how I deal with it: If you get 2 hits and 1 crit: DB8 (Base*2+STAB, for the 2 hits) + DB5 (Base*1+STAB, for the single crit) If you get 2 hits and 2 crits: DB8+DB8 Essentially, treat the critical as a separate attack to determine the damage base. This lines up with your "B" solution. |
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| Semicolonkid | Sep 21 2015, 09:20 AM Post #3 |
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Pokémon Trainer
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Actually, there's a slight difference between your solution and my "B" solution: If I got two crits, I'd be assigning STAB to each crit, ending in a total of DB 8 + DB 10 (DB 5 + DB 5). In your case, the second crit doesn't take STAB into account, it simply adds another DB 3. Why would each crit be calculated differently? It's an interesting compromise to my two listed solutions and I appreciate your response, but it still doesn't quite make sense to me. |
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| Kairose | Sep 21 2015, 10:20 AM Post #4 |
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Pokémon Trainer
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The second crit doesn't take STAB into account for the same reason the second regular hit doesn't: the damage base used for the crit is calculated the same way the damage base used for the regular hit is: Take the base DB (3), multiplied by the number of successful crits, then add any other bonuses. So, 3*2+2 = 6+2 = 8. |
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| Semicolonkid | Sep 21 2015, 10:48 AM Post #5 |
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Pokémon Trainer
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Ahh....I THINK I see. So you're saying that when you're calculating the two crits, they're actually 1 crit, just like the two attacks are just 1 attack. And just like the attacks, the only difference is an extra instance of the DB, and otherwise the crit still doubles the SINGLE application of STAB/Technician/etc that crits normally double. Is this an accurate interpretation? |
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| Kairose | Sep 21 2015, 12:14 PM Post #6 |
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Pokémon Trainer
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That is correct, crits on a double strike move is treated the same as the normal hit, so 2 crits will only increase the DB used for the critical damage. |
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| Semicolonkid | Sep 21 2015, 12:43 PM Post #7 |
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Pokémon Trainer
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Alright, that makes sense, thanks! |
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