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What are your houserules?
Topic Started: May 26 2015, 07:24 AM (6,951 Views)
Giant2005
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Tacticool Garlic
May 27 2015, 06:52 PM
In any case, most people hate that in the late parts of a game most attacks become coin flips on wether or not they hit, which drags out combat. Raising the evasion rate is the exact opposite of what people want, hence the house rules to make evasion weaker. No one wants to sit around and watch as they lose a match all thanks to what is effectively a coin flip that is the current evasion rules.
That sounds great from the perspective of the attacker but what of the guy that is building his Pokemon up to be evasive?
If you build your Pokemon for speed, you can be sure that he will reliably be the fastest around. Build him up for attack and he will reliably do a crapload of damage. Build him up for hit points and he will reliably take a few hits before he goes down. Build him up for accuracy and he will reliably hit his target.
But what about the poor evasion guy? Build him up for Evasion and there is only a 50/50 chance those resources you devoted to that end will even do anything. By nerfing Evasion you just make the already hardest mechanic in the system to master even harder. Considering that dedicated Pokemon trainers are already likely to have a 100% hit rate regardless of what the evader is capable of, the Evader's abilities will only work half the time against half the opponents. Nerfing him further is just cruel.
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Doxy
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Giant2005
May 27 2015, 07:18 PM
But what about the poor evasion guy? Build him up for Evasion and there is only a 50/50 chance those resources you devoted to that end will even do anything. By nerfing Evasion you just make the already hardest mechanic in the system to master even harder. Considering that dedicated Pokemon trainers are already likely to have a 100% hit rate regardless of what the evader is capable of, the Evader's abilities will only work half the time against half the opponents. Nerfing him further is just cruel.
Evasion is very good when it works though, since it negates 100% of the damage.

I do not think Attack/Sp.Attack should contribute to accuracy though, as they're already the most heavily incentivized stats in the game.

The amount of Evasion late-game is not ideal, but if I had a clean, easy solution for this problem, I'd have implemented it.
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Tacticool Garlic
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Mille-Feuille
May 27 2015, 07:24 PM
Evasion is very good when it works though, since it negates 100% of the damage.

I do not think Attack/Sp.Attack should contribute to accuracy though, as they're already the most heavily incentivized stats in the game.

The amount of Evasion late-game is not ideal, but if I had a clean, easy solution for this problem, I'd have implemented it.
Perhaps you could enlighten me about how they are incentivized, because I frankly don't understand how.

The defenses give both damage reduction and add to their respective evasion.
Speed adds to initative and all 3 evasion scores.
Hp is well...Hp, however it gives 3 points for each invested. (Also you get one point for each Lv anyway).
The attack stats give just that. More Damage. That's it.

I understand why damage output is important, however as the game progresses, you get access to higher DB moves. Some even get them fairly early on such as hyper fang on rattata. This can mean that even if you have a low atk, you can still afford to invest less in it if you have a high DB move or two.

Plus it has a high chance to bite you in the butt if you invest too heavily similar to speed. There's a thread up now on stating 'mons. I believe someone mentioned that if you are doing 80% damage to a foe each round, you're no better off than if you were doing 50% since it's still a 2HKO (of course that's just on 1v1 but you get the point).

All my ranting aside, the method dusk and I use still allows a defensive Pokemon to evade just as well as normal, since it's 1 evade negated for every 10 in the attacking stat. Assuming an attack and defender have similar BST/R and the same invested in their respective stats (let's say a total of 35in each stat respectively), the defender still adds 4 to the AC (attacker negates 3, defender has 35/5=7; 7-3=4; 4 is still in the limit of 6 from stats). Bump those numbers to 60 each, the attacker negates 6, the defender has 12 possible so add 6 to the AC which is same as normal rules.
Basically the attacker gets to catch a little break so long as he commits and the defender still has a solid evasion to add to the AC.
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Giant2005
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May 27 2015, 08:03 PM
All my ranting aside, the method dusk and I use still allows a defensive Pokemon to evade just as well as normal, since it's 1 evade negated for every 10 in the attacking stat. Assuming an attack and defender have similar BST/R and the same invested in their respective stats (let's say a total of 35in each stat respectively), the defender still adds 4 to the AC (attacker negates 3, defender has 35/5=7; 7-3=4; 4 is still in the limit of 6 from stats). Bump those numbers to 60 each, the attacker negates 6, the defender has 12 possible so add 6 to the AC which is same as normal rules.
Basically the attacker gets to catch a little break so long as he commits and the defender still has a solid evasion to add to the AC.
It sounds fair but it really isn't.
If a speed-based Pokemon is focusing on his Evasion to keep him alive, he essentially has to keep pumping speed higher and higher to counteract the opponent's attack. Considering the speedster is already likely to be going first, he is getting nothing for his stat points other than counter-acting the penalties the attacker is imposing on him.
The attacker however is imposing those penalties while also increasing his damage. In effect the accuracy bonus and the evasion bonus are both wiped from the table, meaning that the attacker is getting extra damage for his stat points while the speedster is getting nothing at all for his.
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Tacticool Garlic
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Giant2005
May 27 2015, 08:09 PM
It sounds fair but it really isn't.
If a speed-based Pokemon is focusing on his Evasion to keep him alive, he essentially has to keep pumping speed higher and higher to counteract the opponent's attack. Considering the speedster is already likely to be going first, he is getting nothing for his stat points other than counter-acting the penalties the attacker is imposing on him.
The attacker however is imposing those penalties while also increasing his damage. In effect the accuracy bonus and the evasion bonus are both wiped from the table, meaning that the attacker is getting extra damage for his stat points while the speedster is getting nothing at all for his.
Except the speeding poke only has to invest 5 points for an evasion point where the attacker has to invest 10 for a single negate.

The attacker would literally have to have twice the speed to truely negate all of the other's evasion. Those are points the speedy poke can invest in other stats to make him tank more hits or hit a bit harder.

If this speedy poke is truely as focused in speed as you claim it will be, it will likely still be giving at least a +5 to that AC. Or are you claiming that 'focusing in speed' is hitting 31 then stopping (because you've got your +6 evade and one extra to out speed those who stopped at 30) counts as focused?
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Giant2005
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Tacticool Garlic
May 27 2015, 08:20 PM
Giant2005
May 27 2015, 08:09 PM
It sounds fair but it really isn't.
If a speed-based Pokemon is focusing on his Evasion to keep him alive, he essentially has to keep pumping speed higher and higher to counteract the opponent's attack. Considering the speedster is already likely to be going first, he is getting nothing for his stat points other than counter-acting the penalties the attacker is imposing on him.
The attacker however is imposing those penalties while also increasing his damage. In effect the accuracy bonus and the evasion bonus are both wiped from the table, meaning that the attacker is getting extra damage for his stat points while the speedster is getting nothing at all for his.
Except the speeding poke only has to invest 5 points for an evasion point where the attacker has to invest 10 for a single negate.

The attacker would literally have to have twice the speed to truely negate all of the other's evasion. Those are points the speedy poke can invest in other stats to make him tank more hits or hit a bit harder.

If this speedy poke is truely as focused in speed as you claim it will be, it will likely still be giving at least a +5 to that AC. Or are you claiming that 'focusing in speed' is hitting 31 then stopping (because you've got your +6 evade and one extra to out speed those who stopped at 30) counts as focused?
No.
I imagine that if speed is the Pokemon's thing, then it will be investing enough to ensure that it is the fastest Pokemon around but I doubt it would be investing anywhere near as much as a dedicated sweeper would be into its offense. That sweeper would easily erase at least a significant portion of the speedster's only line of defense and in doing so it is essentially buffing one of the already strongest forms of combat even more and nerfing what is arguably the weakest.

The Speedster has two advantages: Fair evasion and striking first.
If you take away the Evasion then striking first becomes virtually irrelevant - the Speedster would have been better off simply putting those points into HP so it has enough to easily absorb the enemy's first strike and invalidating the need for going first in the first place. Nerfing Evasion like that virtually renders the Speed Stat obsolete as there is no reason to ever bring it above the Pokemon's starting value.
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zoofman
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Guys this thread is going WAY off topic, please move this discussion to another thread rather than derail this one.

Spoiler: click to toggle
Edited by zoofman, May 27 2015, 09:51 PM.
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SuperVaderMan
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In the games I'm in on other forums, you get an extra feat every 5 levels, since we find the leveling process to be a bit slow. None of our characters have even gotten up to level 5 yet, though, mostly due to the pbp format.
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Paperblade
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zoofman
May 27 2015, 09:50 PM
Spoiler: click to toggle
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Gamesdisk
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The auction test.

Players set their own DC's this is upped by the target, what is upped by the player, what is upped by the target. When the player or the target drops out the remaining bidder rolls. IF they fail the other person wins

Example

A golden meowth is running across the roof ducking and darting away from our hero of the tail, The Ace Trainer Hotura. There is a reward for capturing this monster and is also the target for many other trainers. Looking to capsulize on the skills she too begins jumping between building. The chance of death not an issue in mind of her goals.

The meowth is going to try for a 7 to get away
Hotura gos for a 10 as she kicks off the top of a guttering tearing it away from poor Mr Jenkis home
Meowth turns for an 11 and darts though ventilation outlets risking getting trapped.
Houtura 12
Mewoth 13
Houtra 15 ! and the mewoth drops out. If she fails to make this roll is will not only loose the mewoth but may fall to her doom!
3d6+1= 4, 4, 6 +1 = 15!
They both get to the last house on this row and she throws out GeoChick and begins the battle.

But lets say the mewoth went for 16 and got it. The fact that he rolled it will take the danger away from our ace trainer, and if it failed he would of too slipped and fell.
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