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Ethical Implications of Ghost Type Shifting?; Or: How to avoid Unnecessary Reanimation
Topic Started: Apr 23 2015, 08:22 AM (2,046 Views)
Heemi
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Ghost Ace
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Okay so I'll be playing a PTU game with my friends and really want to avoid having people say that Using Occult Education in the Type-shifting Feature for Ghost-Type pokemon is, by default, basically killing them, then reanimating them.

I mean, if you want to do that, by all means, I just want to know if that's the baseline or if it's entirely up to the DM. In a perfect world I think it would just be giving them Ghost Powers, similar to Danny Phantom. But I'm primarily concerned about the potential ethical implications if it does involve death.

Like, would that make the pokemon go down in loyalty? Would it automatically drop it to 0? I think it would, if it were unwilling reanimation...But what about other ways? Like, if the pokemon was critically injured and about to die? Would it make them go UP in loyalty to know how much their trainer loved them in their final moments, and allow them to come back as a Protector-Ghost?

So can anyone give a ruling on this? Please and thanks!
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Slytherclaw
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Storyteller
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In my very first game, my ghost player got a special knife that could only be used to convert pokemon, and his method was actually using a cleanse tag and that knife to convert it. It did actually drop loyalty one stage. Were he to find a critically injured pokemon and try to do it, I'd probably allow it.

Alternatively, it could be a sort of meditation/trace event together where a ghost type legendary grants the power to the pokemon, or involve the use of a ritual and a ghost type gem or something.

It's really up to the GM.
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DNA
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King of Thought
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>type-shifting
>ethical

choose only one


You don't really need a ruling for this as it's entirely independent on how the GM wants flavor on it. Advice, though, is always free.

I should point out that there are a small handful of Ghost Pokemon that could be described as not being dead (Golurk, Sableye, Rotom, Jellicent, not sure about Pumpkaboo) so it's quite possible to draw from something else for your Ghost typing. Golurk is driven by an energy core, Rotom is essentially ethereal plasma, Pumpkaboo has a strange light much like Lampent does... I have no idea why Sableye and Jellicent are Ghost-types.

The mechanics of type-shifting are left open-ended on purpose as they are visualized in different ways by different people. I myself could see Ghost-type shifting as a connection towards the ethereal without actually being dead; a friend of mine actually used a Ghost-type shifting to help the spirits of the dead pass on to the afterlife (like Dusknoir). Or it could be something as innocuous as Phasing, turning invisible, or just a proclivity toward pranks - though we can't all be Gengar. A 'Danny Phantom-esque' interpretation could work extremely well as it's one that produces most effect for least pain, so I think you're on to something here.

In closing, don't be beholden to certain presuppositions when considering type shifting. You are the DM. It is your world. You write the rules.
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rlrichey
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Rival
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In my game, if a Pokémon is eligible for evolution and they would get knocked out, instead I will let them evolve and set their HP back to max for an epic "I'm not finished yet!" moment.

I do the same thing with Type Syncing, which we like to think of as an inter-type evolution. If a Ghost-Type would knock it out, or if Arceus forbid it actually died, that could trigger its latent Ghost power to come back and rejuvenate it.
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Heemi
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Ghost Ace
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DNA
Apr 23 2015, 08:30 AM
>type-shifting
>ethical

choose only one


You don't really need a ruling for this as it's entirely independent on how the GM wants flavor on it. Advice, though, is always free.

I should point out that there are a small handful of Ghost Pokemon that could be described as not being dead (Golurk, Sableye, Rotom, Jellicent, not sure about Pumpkaboo) so it's quite possible to draw from something else for your Ghost typing. Golurk is driven by an energy core, Rotom is essentially ethereal plasma, Pumpkaboo has a strange light much like Lampent does... I have no idea why Sableye and Jellicent are Ghost-types.

The mechanics of type-shifting are left open-ended on purpose as they are visualized in different ways by different people. I myself could see Ghost-type shifting as a connection towards the ethereal without actually being dead; a friend of mine actually used a Ghost-type shifting to help the spirits of the dead pass on to the afterlife (like Dusknoir). Or it could be something as innocuous as Phasing, turning invisible, or just a proclivity toward pranks - though we can't all be Gengar. A 'Danny Phantom-esque' interpretation could work extremely well as it's one that produces most effect for least pain, so I think you're on to something here.

In closing, don't be beholden to certain presuppositions when considering type shifting. You are the DM. It is your world. You write the rules.
Okay, makes sense. I'll consult with my DM further on the matter when she wakes up.

In the meantime, let's just turn this into a discussion thread for all the ways types could be added to a Pokemon, theoretically speaking, so we can generate ideas for how to handle it in every campaign that uses Type-shifting and give inspiration for DMs everywhere.

Personally Medical Education + Type Shifting always struck me like a "Spiderman" or "Hulk" Scenario, where the Type is shifted in a more biological sense.

Occult Education is obviously magical in origin, so there's a lot of possibility there. Blessings, curses, etc...

Technological Education could possibly have you make a sort of "Super Suit" that allows a Pokemon to function as that Type, like Iron Man! Alternatively, it could be nanites.
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Jacquerel
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You can fluff type changes literally however you like.
If you don't want your ghost shift to be an actual ghost, just make a ritual that puts it more in touch with the other side, or even grants it some form of Lich style immortality.
Edited by Jacquerel, Apr 23 2015, 08:44 AM.
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Onidrill
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They're very intentionally vague about the ethical ramifications of every class. Lasher was renamed and its more violent feats toned partly for this reason - if you want to go grimdark, by all means have it be the ritual murder and resurrection of a Pokemon. G-rated alternatives are just as possible, though.
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Dark_Star
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Heemi
Apr 23 2015, 08:43 AM
Technological Education could possibly have you make a sort of "Super Suit" that allows a Pokemon to function as that Type, like Iron Man! Alternatively, it could be nanites.
NANOMACHINES, SON!

But anyway, another possible implementation of Medicine Education is via Gene Therapy (Though I suppose that could also technically count as Tech. Edu) For Occult, potions and elixirs, or other kinds of magical medicines could be used.

Another use of Tech would be cybernetic Enhancements.
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EdroGrimshell
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Dark_Star
Apr 23 2015, 04:38 PM
Heemi
Apr 23 2015, 08:43 AM
Technological Education could possibly have you make a sort of "Super Suit" that allows a Pokemon to function as that Type, like Iron Man! Alternatively, it could be nanites.
NANOMACHINES, SON!

But anyway, another possible implementation of Medicine Education is via Gene Therapy (Though I suppose that could also technically count as Tech. Edu) For Occult, potions and elixirs, or other kinds of magical medicines could be used.

Another use of Tech would be cybernetic Enhancements.
Or a machine that infuses the energy of the type into the pokemon, or neutralizes in the case of Normal typing.
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Moriya
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Slytherclaw
 
In my very first game, my ghost player got a special knife that could only be used to convert pokemon, and his method was actually using a cleanse tag and that knife to convert it. It did actually drop loyalty one stage. Were he to find a critically injured pokemon and try to do it, I'd probably allow it.

That's me, and I'm pretty happy with how things turned out. I'm not sure how The Ritual actually works, but I'm assuming it kills the body, then binds the soul to the corpse. There were a few other things I was thinking about before we started:

Possession: Talk a nearby ghost into a permanent possession with your pokemon. This would also work for bug/grass.
Soul removal: Some sort of soul extraction ritual/machine/drug. If the subject is unconscious, it could be completely painless. This has the side effect of leaving behind a corpse to deal with.
Tattoo: Markings (religious symbols?) that place the target somewhere between this realm and the next.

In addition, the precise mechanics of the change could be reflected in how it is done. For example, a non-lethal Ghost switch might not grant the Dead Silent capability while retaining some access to a former type because they are still "in this world".
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