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| Question about Scifi Weapons; Weapon Edge Confusion | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Nov 18 2014, 08:59 AM (1,156 Views) | |
| rlrichey | Nov 18 2014, 08:59 AM Post #1 |
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Rival
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Does this mean that you can't use Laser Rifle without the Laser Training Edge? You can't even try? What about the Struggle Attacks? The "Flash Cannon" thing is a little redundant. But this doesn't even mention the Steel-Type Struggle Attacks. My point: Laser Rifle without Laser Training looks it it enables Steel-Type Struggle Attacks and Flash Cannon, but locks them until you have the Weapon Edge. It kind of feels like an obscure hidden combo, since nobody would take the edge without the weapon or vice-versa. The weapon is 100% worthless without the edge, but then it suddenly gains 2 powers at once, which ignores the opportunity for it to have a dual-purpose incremental advancement. That seems strange to me. If I may be so bold, I feel like maybe RAI wants a solitary Laser Rifle to shoot Steel-Type projectiles while the edge unlocks its full potential. The proficiency gap just feels awkward to me. Can somebody clarify? |
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| Kairose | Nov 18 2014, 11:28 AM Post #2 |
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Pokémon Trainer
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I believe that the idea is that the weapons in the sci-fi splat require specialized training, and weren't really usable as weapons without said training, causing it to only function as an Improvised Weapon if you don't have the edge. The edge makes it work as a normal weapon of it's type, which includes dealing non-normal-type Struggle attacks, as well as the move a weapon edge would normally grant. |
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| rlrichey | Nov 18 2014, 12:08 PM Post #3 |
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The laser rifle talks about flash cannon and steel struggle, whereas the edge only talks about flash cannon. That makes it seem like there's something extra about the weapon independent from the edge. |
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| rlrichey | Dec 7 2014, 12:34 PM Post #4 |
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What can people without the training do with a sci-fi gun? Are they even allowed to pull the trigger? |
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| carnackiArdent | Dec 7 2014, 10:30 PM Post #5 |
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Looking at one of the other weapons and its associated Edge, just because I think the Flash Cannon comment in the laser rifle's description might be confusing the issue:
It looks to me like you absolutely cannot use the weapon without the edge, because (as the sidebar on that page notes) the sci-fi weapons and their capacity for typed Struggle Attacks make for incredible coverage. If I had somebody determined to attempt to use the weapon without the edge, I think I'd probably say that it cannot be used in a way that conveys its corresponding type. So you could probably pistol-whip somebody with a Tesla Gun or a Laser Rifle, but it'd be doing your usual Normal-type damage and probably only be a Melee weapon. Same deal with a Laser Sword or a Psionic Blade - probably be a Light Melee weapon regardless of its usual size because you don't get the typed blade, and you'd probably be about as well off picking up a rock off the ground and smacking things with that. Edited by carnackiArdent, Dec 7 2014, 10:31 PM.
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| rlrichey | Dec 9 2014, 11:07 AM Post #6 |
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Still, I think "balance" is too small an argument to destroy realism so harshly. They are guns. They have triggers. Everybody knows how to pull triggers. If they have a "safety," someone can be easily told how to switch it. If this is about proficiency, they should just have a penalty like "deals normal-type damage" or some Accuracy penalty. Shutting it down defies reason, and based on the arguments so far, just feels like poor design. |
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| FallenEco | Dec 9 2014, 12:47 PM Post #7 |
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They are Sci-Fi guns. They might not have triggers. Or buttons. It depends on the setting. Not siding with either side of the debate, just pointing out that assumptions based off of 'skins' may not hold true. |
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| carnackiArdent | Dec 9 2014, 01:38 PM Post #8 |
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FallenEco's point is, I think, probably part of the assumption being made - the fact that the edges require at least Novice Tech Education suggests that the operation of the weapons actually is complicated enough to keep someone untrained from being able to use them effectively. Back to the laser rifle, anyone used to a normal gun is going to be used to things like recoil, bullet drop, and leading the target, which are going to be nonexistent or exist to a much lesser degree in a weapon that fires, effectively, massless speed-of-light projectiles (i.e. photons). Same deal with a laser sword - the blade effectively has no or very little mass, on account of being a laser. A Tesla Coil Gun might require careful calibration to shoot electricity in a useful way rather than just sparking off every which direction like a real tesla coil. And obviously a Psy Knife just doesn't work if you aren't already a psychic, and I could easily buy that it requires training to channel your power into it at all. And I don't know about you, but I certainly wouldn't hand a flamethrower to anyone who didn't know what they were doing with it. And that's all entirely making things up, because sometimes you really do have to go for balance and come up with an explanation after the fact, if one is required. It's the same reason Trainer Classes don't usually give access to more than one non-Normal Type of damage. |
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| zoofman | Dec 9 2014, 01:42 PM Post #9 |
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Considering weapons as a whole are being revisited for 1.05, the "issue", in the grand scheme of things, is a bit moot |
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| rlrichey | Dec 9 2014, 02:07 PM Post #10 |
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This is exciting. |
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