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[PTU Blog] Polka and Poaching; a look at Dancer and Hunter revisions
Topic Started: Nov 10 2014, 06:21 PM (5,942 Views)
rlrichey
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Rival
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Can beguiling dance miss?
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gourdcaptain
Pokémon Trainer
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I tend to think that while positive combat stages are useful (admittedly, this is coming from someone who's rather fond in his game of using a Heracross with Moxie and Swords Dance to boost up Atk significantly and then use that Juggler feature that gives a Baton Pass effect onto his Talonflame with a custom Mega Stone, much to the DM's frustration), the nerf for them is a bit odd because adding 1/4th is pretty easy to calculate on the fly. What IS harder is negative combat stages as 1/8th is a bit more awkward, and it's already rather minor for a reduction in most circumstances. (Which added even more surrealness when one of the other PCs in the game I'm in decided to open up his fight for his sixth badge with "my Pokemon uses tail whip.) I'm just not sure what percentage you could change negative combat stages to that would work better.

The one time we've seen negative combat stages come in super-useful is when fighting a Shuckle. And Shuckle is already a borderline breaking point for the system as it is. (Especially the one another PC uses with Ace Trainer to give it trained stats of Defense and Special Defense. And stacks Defense Curl on top of that. It is Scratch Damage the Pokemon. We've suddenly seen a lot of enemy Pokemon with poisoning/burning/harsh weather moves and Psywave or such...)
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Major
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GM allowed me to update my Hunter to this so was looking over it again and reread thread to see if my question had been answered (didn't see it).

So...question (not sure if this fits better in the Q&A or here...cause on one hand this is an unreleased preview so seems questions should go her, but on other its a short question.

Is it intended that Don't Look Away and Opportunist Training can't be used with the Hunter themself? As in, only the Pokemon can trigger their abilities. I remember part of this thread was mentioning when I was commenting that the point is to allow a Hunter to lockdown someone and keep pressure on them, but despite being a combat class it seems like it has their pokemon do all the locking down. Gaining these new abilities of Pack Hunt and Teamwork is awesome for sure, but it just seems weird that we can't use Don't Look Away ourselves and can only do it our Pokemon.
---Speaking of which, do we count as our own ally? I know this has been asked before but I can't remember where and what answer was?

Also, hypothetically speaking if there were two Hunters or a Hunter had two pokemon out and both were adjacent to the same target would that person trigger opportunist training always? IE: Since they will always attack "another ally"? Given, only one would be triggered at a time (Unless they attacked a third person that wasn't either hunter mon) but still.
Edited by Major, Dec 26 2014, 05:07 AM.
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Doxy
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Major
Dec 26 2014, 04:51 AM
GM allowed me to update my Hunter to this so was looking over it again and reread thread to see if my question had been answered (didn't see it).

So...question (not sure if this fits better in the Q&A or here...cause on one hand this is an unreleased preview so seems questions should go her, but on other its a short question.

Is it intended that Don't Look Away and Opportunist Training can't be used with the Hunter themself? As in, only the Pokemon can trigger their abilities. I remember part of this thread was mentioning when I was commenting that the point is to allow a Hunter to lockdown someone and keep pressure on them, but despite being a combat class it seems like it has their pokemon do all the locking down. Gaining these new abilities of Pack Hunt and Teamwork is awesome for sure, but it just seems weird that we can't use Don't Look Away ourselves and can only do it our Pokemon.
---Speaking of which, do we count as our own ally? I know this has been asked before but I can't remember where and what answer was?

Also, hypothetically speaking if there were two Hunters or a Hunter had two pokemon out and both were adjacent to the same target would that person trigger opportunist training always? IE: Since they will always attack "another ally"? Given, only one would be triggered at a time (Unless they attacked a third person that wasn't either hunter mon) but still.
Yes, DLA and Opportunist are only usable by your Pokemon. It'd be too good if it was both.

The point of hunter is that it's actually a kind of hybrid combat/pokemon support where it needs both participants to function at 100%. Hence it being based off abilities like Teamwork and Pack Hunt.

On whether "Ally" applies to yourself, it depends on the wording. I assume you're referring to Opportunist's training here, in which case yes - your Pokemon can use DLA if a foe attacks you.

It wouldn't work with two Hunters, but if a Hunter had two Pokemon out and had corralled someone, yes, a foe could be set up to potentially take an attack no matter who it decides to attack. Also, note that DLA says it can only be triggered once per round. That's once per round total, not once per round per Pokemon. So even if you have two out, you can't make more than one attack through DLA.
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CosmicOccurene
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Matanui3
Nov 19 2014, 12:42 PM
Onidrill
Nov 13 2014, 12:26 AM
I suspect [Quiver Dance's] change to Scene x2 was in part because Dancer had access to it, and it takes away from the handful of otherwise unremarkable butterflies that learn it.
Unremarkable butterflies... and one quite remarkable Sun Moth.

Volcarona is love, Volcarona is life.
I know a group of players who will swear that butterfree is one of the singular most terrifying pokemon out there when used by even a semi-competent trainer. Quiver Dance is a very very powerful move for pokemon that can put pokemon to sleep pretty much from evolution.
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Yenek
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I'd also like to point out that "Pseudo-SD" is called Nasty Plot.
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The Black Glove
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CosmicOccurene
Dec 26 2014, 07:42 PM
Matanui3
Nov 19 2014, 12:42 PM

Quoting limited to 2 levels deep
I know a group of players who will swear that butterfree is one of the singular most terrifying pokemon out there when used by even a semi-competent trainer. Quiver Dance is a very very powerful move for pokemon that can put pokemon to sleep pretty much from evolution.
Seconded. Would be thirded if I could. Butterfree is so terrifying because what it lacks in stats, it makes up for in sheer utility. Threaded, Flight, tons of status moves, Tailwind and Safeguard by level up, 5 FANTASTIC Abilities (+ACC, -Enemy Resist, Immunity to AC Debuffs, Immunity to flanking, Whirlwind Connection), Psychic moves via Level Up to go with STAB Gust (Guster Capability) and Bug Buzz/Silver Wind, and then it has access to Quiver Dance? That is a scary bug.

I think Hunters and Dancers will probably appreciate having one around (the latter to pass Nasty Plot Boosts to, the former for the wide array of low-AC/frequency status effects), but beholding the Great and Mighty Butterfree is beginning to stray us off-topic. /rant.
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Major
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Doxy
Dec 26 2014, 07:16 AM
Major
Dec 26 2014, 04:51 AM
GM allowed me to update my Hunter to this so was looking over it again and reread thread to see if my question had been answered (didn't see it).

So...question (not sure if this fits better in the Q&A or here...cause on one hand this is an unreleased preview so seems questions should go her, but on other its a short question.

Is it intended that Don't Look Away and Opportunist Training can't be used with the Hunter themself? As in, only the Pokemon can trigger their abilities. I remember part of this thread was mentioning when I was commenting that the point is to allow a Hunter to lockdown someone and keep pressure on them, but despite being a combat class it seems like it has their pokemon do all the locking down. Gaining these new abilities of Pack Hunt and Teamwork is awesome for sure, but it just seems weird that we can't use Don't Look Away ourselves and can only do it our Pokemon.
---Speaking of which, do we count as our own ally? I know this has been asked before but I can't remember where and what answer was?

Also, hypothetically speaking if there were two Hunters or a Hunter had two pokemon out and both were adjacent to the same target would that person trigger opportunist training always? IE: Since they will always attack "another ally"? Given, only one would be triggered at a time (Unless they attacked a third person that wasn't either hunter mon) but still.
Yes, DLA and Opportunist are only usable by your Pokemon. It'd be too good if it was both.

The point of hunter is that it's actually a kind of hybrid combat/pokemon support where it needs both participants to function at 100%. Hence it being based off abilities like Teamwork and Pack Hunt.

On whether "Ally" applies to yourself, it depends on the wording. I assume you're referring to Opportunist's training here, in which case yes - your Pokemon can use DLA if a foe attacks you.

It wouldn't work with two Hunters, but if a Hunter had two Pokemon out and had corralled someone, yes, a foe could be set up to potentially take an attack no matter who it decides to attack. Also, note that DLA says it can only be triggered once per round. That's once per round total, not once per round per Pokemon. So even if you have two out, you can't make more than one attack through DLA.
oops missed the reply, thank you for the answer that is what I thought but I wanted to make sure. The reason I was unsure was because originally the hunter only taught his Pokemon teamwork/pack hunt so it made sense that only they could do it, but I was thinking since 01.05 you also benefit from the same tactics maybe it was changed. Thank you for clearing that up. though I am confused about both are supposed to be able to fight side by side but you can't defend your pokemon like they defend you? As for the too good you noted it was once per round so what would change? Given I have not used the feat or looked in depth so I can assume I am missing something.

as for the wording on "your ally" could you give an example of what type of wording it would not apply to you? obviously if it says another ally, but is there any case where it would say "your ally" but not apply to you?
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theweirdest1
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I don't know about the rest of it right now, but "your ally" could easily apply to another trainer or his mon that are in your party. So if your party's healer was attacked (because he's the healer probably) by a wild boss mon, than that could trigger it because he is your ally in the fight.

For the record, if someone in your party has an Amoongus, this can be abused due to ragepowder/synthesis/regenerator shenanigans.
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Major
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I realize that your ally can easily apply to someone else, but the question was when your ally included you as well.
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