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[PTU Blog] Polka and Poaching; a look at Dancer and Hunter revisions
Topic Started: Nov 10 2014, 06:21 PM (5,941 Views)
castfromhp
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Mawile Ace
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Read the post here: http://pokemontabletop.com/polka-and-poaching/

Just a quick look at how we tweaked Dancer and Hunter after some post-1.04 feedback. The Classes play much the same role as before but are now better able to serve the goals they were made for.
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Grand Silver
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2 kewl 4 u!
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I really like the new Dancer it looks like it'll be a lot better over all.
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DNA
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King of Thought
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Quote:
 
Name
Type: Normal
Frequency: EOT
AC: None
Class: Status
Range: Self
Effect:

Alright, this is easy! Your Dance Move is going to look like the Move above. First, come up with a name; you may name the Dance Move whatever you like. Secondly, choose two Combat Stage gains for the effect. This may either be +2 Combat Stages to a single Stat, like Swords Dance, or +1 Combat Stage to two different Stats, like Dragon Dance. Once chosen, this cannot be changed.


So...let me get this straight. Over the course of Dancer, you're going to get to learn 8 of the following:
~Swords Dance
~Iron Defense
~What Tail Glow used to be before Gen 5
~Amnesia
~Agility
~Bulk Up
~Work Up
~Atk/SpDef +1 stage
~Dragon Dance
~Def/SpAtk +1 stage
~Cosmic Power
~Def/Spe +1 stage
~Calm Mind
~"Special" Dragon Dance
~SpDef/Spe +1 stage
~Feather Dance
~Screech
~Eerie Impulse
~Fake Tears
~Scary Face
...with the last 5 being Range 4 and AC 2 at least (I should point out you need to write that in; having it never miss would be ludicrous).
Plus whatever other benefits you get from those features, including teaching said moves to your Pokemon.

...As someone who routinely abuses EOT 2-stage boosting status moves, I have to say this upsets me. Why? It's not because it's bad; it's because it's too good. I am firmly of the opinion that anything I could potentially abuse as a weapon is a bad thing. The adjustment to combat stages from +1/4 to +1/5 doesn't really address that.

Ironically, I do not have any other problems with the Dancer class as a whole. Even Beguiling Dance I am fine with. However, I feel like the base feature is far too strong (PUT COSMIC POWER ON EVERYTHING is something I've been scheming for years), and will end up turning Dancer into the go-to dip class for trainer combat, just as Mentor is the dip class for Pokemon support. I know that might have been the intent, but that doesn't make it any less terrifying.

Edit: HOLY CRAP. They've imported Buffet from PTA. No wonder I feel the potential to abuse it.

Moving on to Hunter.

I know the base feature changed, but beyond that, it looks mostly the same to me. Sure, everything got minor tweaks, but I really can't tell what changed all that much, or even if there was a dynamic change at all. Except for Surprise.
But I've never had a problem with Hunter, honestly (nor do I with the new version), so I've no complaints here.
Edited by DNA, Nov 10 2014, 06:50 PM.
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GrayGriffin
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"Ah, you unmasked me. Whatever shall I do."
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Aww...I actually liked the Quarry mechanic. I felt it was a nice flavorful touch on my Hunter character at least.

EDIT: Also, I note that you got rid of the "always adjacent for ability" effect Hunter used to get. Which kind of cripples Hunters who want to rely on ranged weapons, even though they still get bonuses to using ranged weapons, which seems kind of silly.
Edited by GrayGriffin, Nov 10 2014, 07:07 PM.
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SuperVaderMan
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As a Dancer in a Contest-oriented game, I have to ask, what determines the Contest effect of the new dance moves?

I'm assuming they'll all be 'Get Ready!' like all the other CS-boosting moves, but what about the contest type? Would you just get to choose, or would it be based on something else (I would assume the stats being boosted, but there's no real standard for that among the regular boosting moves - Swords Dance increases ATK yet is a Beauty move, Nasty Plot is Cute, etc.)?
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castfromhp
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Mawile Ace
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GrayGriffin
Nov 10 2014, 06:57 PM
Aww...I actually liked the Quarry mechanic. I felt it was a nice flavorful touch on my Hunter character at least.

EDIT: Also, I note that you got rid of the "always adjacent for ability" effect Hunter used to get. Which kind of cripples Hunters who want to rely on ranged weapons, even though they still get bonuses to using ranged weapons, which seems kind of silly.
Actually, Pack Master still allows ranged Hunters to take advantage of Teamwork, and it even lets you boost the accuracy of all of your ranged allies too. You can sit your Pokémon with teamwork next to a foe, and you and all of your allies get the +2 bonus, not just those in melee range.

Quote:
 
As a Dancer in a Contest-oriented game, I have to ask, what determines the Contest effect of the new dance moves?
Didn't really think about that, since we still need to redo Contests. You would get to choose.
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GrayGriffin
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"Ah, you unmasked me. Whatever shall I do."
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castfromhp
Nov 10 2014, 07:18 PM
Actually, Pack Master still allows ranged Hunters to take advantage of Teamwork, and it even lets you boost the accuracy of all of your ranged allies too. You can sit your Pokémon with teamwork next to a foe, and you and all of your allies get the +2 bonus, not just those in melee range.
I was talking about Pack Hunt, since it's the only ability I've given to my Hunter's Pokemon so far. It's been pretty useful, especially when combined with Capture Specialist's Curve Ball.
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Couch
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Hunter losing Take 'Em Down is a rather big nerf, it was nice to be able to get that Poke Ball accuracy bonus without having to burn a class slot on purely improving Poke Ball usage via Capture Specialist.
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castfromhp
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Mawile Ace
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Keep in mind it's MUCH easier to use Surprise! because you don't have to catch something off guard anymore; you can simply put a Pokémon with Pack Hunt or Teamwork next to them and then it just costs 1 AP to get two accuracy rolls against them with a Poké Ball. I feel that enabling you to do something more Hunter-like and active much more often than you could before to get a bonus like that is more interesting than merely a passive bonus. You end up literally chasing your target around the battlefield to maintain the conditions to get that bonus, and you have the tools to make sure they can't easily run away. That's really cool to me, and Capture Spec can keep the more straightforward acc bonus.

As for taking advantage of Pack Hunt at range, that's a small oops and we can fix that.
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Major
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GrayGriffin
Nov 10 2014, 06:57 PM
Aww...I actually liked the Quarry mechanic. I felt it was a nice flavorful touch on my Hunter character at least.
Same, it was one of my favorite parts about Hunter. You marked someone as your prey and got bonuses against them. I could stalk/track a target better by getting survival check boosts, spot them better with perception boosts, sneak up on them better with stealth boosts, and have a decent chance of tripping/grappling them with combat boosts.

I do like getting Pack Hunt or Teamwork because of the fact that it was weird teaching your pokemon to fight as a team and a pack when you couldn't.

I do like the new Surprise! though.

Honestly, Don't Look Away and Opportunist Training where the feats I found the least likable in the class. But, eh changes happen.

Edit: I also slightly disagree on the run-around chase one target vs being able to do it on different targets. The Hunter had a prey that they went after until they took down their target. Now they can surprise one target, then change to another, and another. And it ends up being less "Alright pokemon+me gang up on a target and eliminate them" and more "ok, we'll slap each enemy once"
Edit2: I also feel Quarry matched quite well. The bonuses to stalking, hiding, and ambushing your prey made getting surprise easier. And it actually allowed you to hit with those struggle attacks so you could get those trip bonuses from Finisher. Normally its a -3 to use combat maneuvers, but a Hunter could mark a quarry for +1 and then get a +2 from Take Em Down. Allowing them to no longer be rolling negatives on an AC 3 when evasion can already be a pain. AC 3+evasion for combat maneuvers meant their feat wasn't as likely to be a waste. It seems to have fit (both the theme and the class) more than the Opportunist Training and Don't Look Away which required a target to do specific actions. I'm not saying they weren't nice, but those two feats were basically "an extra pack hunt" vs the rest of the classes ambush and combat maneuver.
Edited by Major, Nov 11 2014, 04:08 AM.
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