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| Smogon hate. How come? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 21 2014, 08:50 PM (5,807 Views) | |
| JBPuffin | Aug 22 2014, 03:57 PM Post #21 |
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Bard of Love...and Death, but mostly Love
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Yeah, I like Smogon. Before PTU showed its beautiful head, it was what kept me into POkemon. Now, it's one of the three forums I distract myself with in my free time :). As for the mindset thing, well...look, everyone has their opinion. Someone wants to throw down with Alakazam with the Elemental Punches and Psychic in a sort of "competitive" environment, I'm not going to judge. If said person also uses a Gliscor with Toxic Orb, Poison Heal and assorted moves with maxed-out Speed and Attack...yeah, okay, strange, but it's opinion, eh? My first game of emerald, I beat the Elite Four with a level 64 Mudkip as my main character. It kicked ass so much there were no words. So yeah, opinion. |
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| TM93 | Aug 22 2014, 04:18 PM Post #22 |
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Pokémon Trainer
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*shrugs* I know, I know, I made a mistake in my wording on the Shoutbox, and came off like an arse. I have my own criteria for my own reasons, but I don't want to shove it down anyone's throat. I'm sorry, I swear. |
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| OniLink147 | Aug 23 2014, 12:25 AM Post #23 |
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Pokémon Trainer
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Edited, because I was being rude. Edited by OniLink147, Aug 23 2014, 02:23 PM.
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| castfromhp | Aug 23 2014, 05:08 AM Post #24 |
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Mawile Ace
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Watch your tone and the personal attacks. That's not okay. The sentiment you have could have been expressed without lines like "Congratulations on being a part of one of the worst competitive scenes in gaming, hope you have fun ruining other people's fun." At this point you're just as much trying to push a "right way" to play Pokémon on TM93, which is exactly the problem people have with "Smogon" in the first place.
Edited by castfromhp, Aug 23 2014, 05:10 AM.
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| TM93 | Aug 23 2014, 06:44 AM Post #25 |
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Pokémon Trainer
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I was under the impression that everything else in that post was quite civil, that was just the best analogy that I could come up with. I'm not saying don't try and come up with your own new sets and move combinations, in fact I heavily encourage that, and that's part of why I loved Pachirishu in the VGC, I even do so myself to a small extent over the generally given sets. (Volcarona, Dragonite and Megazard X for example, I go for Bulk over the suggested stat of Speed, they get Speed Buffs from Quiver/Dragon Dance respectively, they just need a chance to set it up.) And yes, RNG is a very real thing in Pokemon, but now it's very possible for most players to figure out how to manipulate it through gameplay alone, and begin to build a proper team. Between new Breeding Mechanics (Destiny Knot+Everstone FTW), far easier to obtain IV's (Friend Safari and Unbreedable Pokemon FTW, Riolu and Azurill, you're both bros), far easier to obtain Hidden Abilities (Friend Safari and Hordes FTW), insanely easier EV Training (Hordes and Super Training, win), making a good Pokemon is easier than ever. Although I know it's still a lot to wrap your head around, I still enjoy giving my friends good Pokemon if they need it (I think I've given out at least 3 optimal Protean Greninjas at this point, and about 10 of the same for Talonflames, and countless Charizards of both variety, and you know what, I love it, I love helping friends out like that) But getting a bit back on track, I was ranting there, while the analogy may have come off as rude, I'm sorry. But going in to the PSS with a team which is pretty much just "the team I beat the game with and I didn't breed or EV train them properly for one set or another" is simply not a good idea, and complaining when you lose isn't very cool at that point, when the vast majority of other players, Smogonites or not, have bred and trained their teams. Hence where my analogy came in, rude or not. Does Smogon eliminate types of gameplay? Yes, and no. They got rid of Swagplay teams, Sleep Teams, Evasion Teams, and I forgot what the consensus on Full Pass Teams were. But these types of playstyles were incredibly taxing on the game, and when they were removed, many other playstyles became far more viable, and new strategies pop up all the time. There are still many very viable types of gameplay outside of these rather broken, and frustrating to play against ones. Balanced, Offensive, Hyper Offensive, Stall, Support/Cripple, Phasing, Hazard-setting are just a few examples I can think of. I was not saying you have to like how I play the game, or that you have to play it like I do. But please don't go into a competitive scene with a team that is not prepared in the slightest, then complain when you lose and blame it on a community whose presence is minimal to only moderate at absolute best in the place you're playing. It just doesn't make any sense to me. Again, I hope I'm being civil here and not trying to push a playstyle down anyone's throat. If I am, sorry, and I'll edit the post. |
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| Anonyman | Aug 23 2014, 09:36 AM Post #26 |
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Snagger
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I don't think I understand the Lucario example. Are you upset that a fully IV/EV trained pokemon with a good moveset wins more than one without? Or are you just upset that because your pokemon aren't set up well they lose to people who prepare? It sounds like you would prefer to play dice to pokemon, since you can't stand the idea of someone who plans and puts in the effort to make a team beating you. Playing casually with the pokemon you like without any thought about strategy is good and all, but don't blame the people who beat you for being winning; accept that you knowingly went into a fight at a disadvantage of your own volition. |
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| OniLink147 | Aug 23 2014, 02:21 PM Post #27 |
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Pokémon Trainer
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I apologize for my tone and personal attacks, it was late and I was tired/irritable. As for my point, my issue isn't the preparation factor. It's the homogeny that the competitive community encourages. My point with the Lucario is there is no such thing as having a unique Pokémon in the competitive scene. All Pokémon must follow a specific build with the same moves, EVs, IVs, Natures, etc. Occasionally you can deviate from this, but if you do so too much, you are looked down upon. Which factors into what I was saying about elitism within the competitive community. As for the RNG, honestly I don't think Pokémon should be competitive in the first place, even with probabilities in your favor luck can play a huge role in a match, such as recently at the Pokémon World Championships. A player was screwed over because of a completely random flinch. And no I would not rather play dice, if I want to play a game competitively I would play a game where RNG does not have the ability to decide a match. That's what caused such an uproar in the Halo community in Halo Reach. Bungie introduced an RNG into play with bloom on precision weapons, turning a previously competitively viable game into a RNG simulator. The same thing happened with Brawl and tripping. Randomness lowers a game's competitive viability overall and Pokémon's primary gameplay mechanics all run on an RNG. The other issue is simply the fact that many players have no interest in playing online anymore because of how alienating it is to play. It isn't about playing to have fun anymore, its about breeding an absolutely perfect beast that will murderstomp anything that is not equally as beastly. The part that bothers me though is that this concept has completely consumed Pokémon's multiplayer. In say Halo or Super Smash Bros, a casual player is capable of having fun and enjoying themselves while still co-existing alongside the highly competitive players. In Pokémon, unless the person enjoys losing, a casual player isn't going to have fun. Edited by OniLink147, Aug 23 2014, 02:24 PM.
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| TM93 | Aug 23 2014, 04:38 PM Post #28 |
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Pokémon Trainer
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Any game that has PvP-based Multiplayer is going to have a competitive scene, and probably a metagame, there's nothing that you can really do to stop that, so there's no need to say that there should never be a competitive scene for Pokemon. And honestly, the "looked down upon" thing for deviant sets, is usually if it's flat-out bad, and there's nothing wrong with experimenting and making a bad set, it happens to the best of us (I admittedly laughed at Bulky Support Talonflame myself, but now that I've seen it in action, I'm highly impressed by the ingenuity of it). And it even then it may take some convincing if it is a good set. My 252 HP Dragonite was laughed at for a bit, until it started tanking Mamoswine Icicle Crashes and Weavile Ice Punches. Hax (Random Chance) happens, and it's something you have to live with in Pokemon's Competitive Scene. Plain and simple. But that's also part of the fun if you ask me, even if it gets frustrating when you lose. The fact that there's a balance of predictable flow of a match on top of RNG is what makes Pokemon fun, yes, you may have a technical advantage, but one wrong move can still change the course of the match. However, in recent generations, even that has become a bit more predictable (namely Gen 6's Type Chart change, you can now swap Electric Types into moves with a chance of Paralysis with no fear, just like Fire Types have been able to do the same with potential burns for years. I can't go into how much that's helped against things like Paraflinchers.). This balance of preparation and luck is a major part of what makes the competitive scene enjoyable for me. A perfectly prepared team still has a small chance of losing due to this luck, even if the better prepared team/one with an overwhelming advantage has a far greater chance. If you want to play casually exclusively, by all means do so, I won't stop you and I won't force you to play competitively. But that doesn't mean that the people who take their time breeding are sucking the fun out of the game. It doesn't mean that the competitive scene is bad. It doesn't mean that everyone who plays the game competitively is bad, or even that the majority of the community is. It doesn't mean that Pokemon should not have a competitive scene. It does mean that if you hop onto the PSS, be prepared to face a properly prepared team who WILL probably beat you if you haven't prepared yourself, whether it's a Ranked or even a Passerby match. |
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| LampostSamurai | Feb 21 2015, 01:12 PM Post #29 |
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DATTEBAYO
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My main issue with Smogon is that their answer to all issues that threaten the meta is to ban it: Prankswag being used? Better ban Swagger. Megakang can hit twice at 50% power when there are potential priority counters in the meta? Better ban it. It's just bad. It promotes bad gameplay, and while I have been known to utilize some smogon builds, I actually dislike the community on the whole. |
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| DNA | Feb 21 2015, 01:31 PM Post #30 |
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King of Thought
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I'll just leave this here... Spoiler: click to toggle
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