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Evolving and enviroment damage
Topic Started: Jun 3 2014, 04:03 PM (970 Views)
Kaede11
Unlucky GM
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Just two questions:

1: How do you guys manage evolution? The Dex states a minimum level to evolve, do you just make pokemon evolve at that level or do you use some sort of system to see if the pokemon does evolve every level after the requirement is met? Something like rolling 1d20 and increasing the chances of evolution every level past the minimum?

2: When using tackle or other moves, the target is pushed back. That is cool and allows strategies like pushing the enemy to rocks, walls, etc... but how do you decide how much damage is received in those cases? And what if the pokemon is pushed to another pokemon? I've been keeping it simple and rolling 1d6 to apply damage in this cases, but I think something more "realistic" could be done - hell, I'm sure a lot of you have a better way to deal with this -

And let's make a third question, What happens if a tiny pokemon uses tackle against a very large pokemon? Let's say that a Caterpie tackles a Steelix. Yeah, Tackle pushes to squares back the target, but cases like this one should be an exception, shouldn't they?
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castfromhp
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Mawile Ace
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1. Every GM handles this differently. Most will have Pokémon evolve right as they reach their minimum level, assuming it's right after a battle or some such. If they reached the level through downtime training XP or some other method, then the GM might have them evolve at the beginning of the next battle they're in - telling the player to prepare their evolved stats beforehand, of course. Some GMs will want to wait for "the right moment", even if a Pokémon has reached a minimum level, and there can be a lot of factors playing into this, such as resolving a Pokémon's issues with inner turmoil or depression, to having a strong in-game impetus for the Pokémon to suddenly evolve, such as their Trainer being put in mortal peril.

What I wouldn't do is ever leave it up to just random chance. That can be immensely frustrating for a player with bad luck and doesn't add anything to the game. For the most part, you don't want to make players wait too long past the minimum to evolve.

2. We consider the damage that might come from pushing someone, whether it's into a wall or simply sending them flying a couple of meters, to be included in the damage roll already for Moves like Strength,Dragon Rush, and every other damaging Move that Pushes. It's much simpler that way, and we really don't like the idea of the Push keyword essentially becoming shorthand for extra damage. If we were to introduce collision damage, we'd probably have to nerf the damage of Push Moves across the board to be happy with it, and that's just not a simple or elegant way to handle this.

3. By RAW, they'd still be pushed. In practice, well, use your best judgment here. Maybe if the difference between size or weight categories is above a certain threshold, then you might rule that they cannot Push the larger target. However, keep in mind many Moves with the Push keyword already have this factored in. And it's not too hard to believe for the 1 meter Push effects that even a smaller Pokémon can strike their target in a way that forces them to stumble back a step or two.
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Thrice
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Mysticalman
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You know, when I read the topic, I thought it might be about, like, Magikarp evolving into Gyarados in a small room and destroying the place. Which I guess is another question, but one entirely GM- dependent.

That aside, I usually let Pokemon evolve when they hit either the level given in the Pokedex PDF, or the level they actually evolve at in the games - whichever is lower. The exception to this is if the Pokemon is KO'd. Except under some real weird circumstances, I usually rule that a Pokemon won't evolve if it's knocked out.

For the second one, RAW there's no extra damage. Some people use falling damage and apply it to whatever Pokemon hits something, but honestly I find the fall damage system itself incredibly punishing and a bit broken, so I stray away from it.

As for Caterpie pushing Steelix..whatever, man. I let it happen. I mean, Pokemon with the move Psychic can push Steelix around with their psychic powers despite it being completely out of the range of things they can push around with their psychic powers, if they even have them in the first place. After all, the absolute highest you can have Focus at for the purposes of Telekinetic is 8. If you want to rule otherwise, feel free to, it certainly makes more sense.
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CosmicOccurene
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Pokémon Trainer
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For evolutions, I tend to prefer them to be impressive or cinematic in some way (especially if its a starter or similar pokemon). They can also just be fun and quirky. I once talked a DM into letting me evolve a munchlax by allowing it to continuously eat throughout the night, racking up a huge bill for my PC to pay. Things like that can really contribute to a game, and just make it fun and different.
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JBPuffin
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Bard of Love...and Death, but mostly Love
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Really, if Caterpie's Tackling a Steelix, there's more going on here than just a strange Push ruling...

With that said, evolution can be one of two things - like the games, they just evolve when they meet the requirements. Ping! It's over, good job, now blow more shit up, please. OR, it can be something more like the anime, where it's less scientific and more dramatic - basically, they evolve when the GM and player say, "Alright, let's do this!", or the GM feels like being nice if it's early.

I think cast's "Push Moves already do that" answer works really well; there are cases, like holes, where some more ought to be done, but I'd say just go with what feels right if that happens. Also, love the example being a Caterpie Tackling a Steelix...so nonsensical, much RAW correct, very win.
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DNA
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King of Thought
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JBPuffin
Jun 3 2014, 05:41 PM
Really, if Caterpie's Tackling a Steelix, there's more going on here than just a strange Push ruling...
You're right; there's much more:

Spoiler: click to toggle
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Kaede11
Unlucky GM
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That GIF!

Well, maybe a lvl 60 caterpie would have the raw power to push a lvl 30 steelix around, you know; but surely my PCs will complain about it not being realistic if that happens.

Anyway, I'm gonna stick to evolving their pokemon when they hit the minimum level. Some of their pokemon are very near to reaching their respective minimum evolution level and surely they are expecting it to happen as soon as possible...

As for the environment damage, surely it works very well if we assume it's already taken into account, but they really enjoy comboing and pushing their enemies for extra damage. Things like "let's push this guy to that other guy" or "let's push him to that rock". I'll work something out. Maybe something like rolling 1/2 the Base damage of the attack without taking into account the attacker's attack and taking into account the defense or using the "Hit himself" damage rule could work. We'll see.
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RockstarRaccoon
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Hex Maniacal!
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Quote:
 
Well, maybe a lvl 60 caterpie would have the raw power to push a lvl 30 steelix around, you know; but surely my PCs will complain about it not being realistic if that happens.

Dude, sqirtle can pump hundreds of litres from its 2 litre shell, Chamander is literally always on fire, bulbasaur can summn leaves and grow vines and use them as limbs at will, and ghost pokemon can do all sorts of weird things.

Pokemon are most obviously magical and laugh in the face of realism.

A level 60 Caterpie can pick up steelix and throw it into orbit.

That being said, yeah, the rules really could use a system for tactics and improvisation. Like, Charmander vs Gastly at Level 5: how much damage does it do for Charmander to set things on fire in front of Gastly, seeing as it doesn't learn Ember until level 7? What if Gastly decides to just be a cloud of gas and sit over someone's head, cutting off their air? If a Level 5 Zigzagoon decides to nom on Bulbasaur's vines, how does that make Bulbasaur feel?

These are important questions!
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castfromhp
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Mawile Ace
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Most of what you mentioned there is already well covered by the rules - Charmander has Firestarter and can use Fire Type Struggle Attacks; I highly doubt a Gastly could keep someone in place long enough to prevent them from breathing, but if they do manage to sit themselves over a completely helpless foe, there are rules for suffocation in the system (pg 226); and the Zigzagoon chomping on the Bulbasaur would just be a Struggle Attack as well, or perhaps an attempt at a Grapple if it intends to keep the Bulbasaur pinned in place.

If you're looking for something more detailed than that, then that sits squarely in the realm of a GM's improvisation. I don't think a system can handle covering every tiny little situation that could pop up due to the huge variety of Pokémon without becoming extraordinarily bloated, so it's natural that we leave such situations to GMs to handle. You may be interested in page 220 in the combat chapter which provides advice for handling these sorts of improvised attacks or attempts to use Pokémon moves to achieve unconventional effects.
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