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Trouble with PCs catching high level pokemon
Topic Started: Jun 1 2014, 03:07 AM (3,080 Views)
zoofman
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Pokémon Trainer
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You could also just lower the levels of things after they are caught, its not like the player needs to know what level the enemy was.

This is a pretty common thing to do from what we've observed and players don't really have issue with it. Or even notice. (I do it all the damn time, in fact)
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castfromhp
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Mawile Ace
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Nah we totally notice. But as you said, we don't always care. That said, I think minor level differences aren't a big deal over the course of a longer campaign, and you can also simply not make commonly catchable mons higher than PC mons and use action economy instead. Bosses, like people said, are best dealt with using loyalty issues. There are other methods too. One example is making boss Pokemon that are wilds "corrupted" or otherwise mystically immune to capture. It could also explain their strange level of strength, assuming you use the boss template.
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Ursus the Grim
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Never Knows Best
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castfromhp
Jun 2 2014, 11:37 AM
Nah we totally notice. But as you said, we don't always care. That said, I think minor level differences aren't a big deal over the course of a longer campaign, and you can also simply not make commonly catchable mons higher than PC mons and use action economy instead. Bosses, like people said, are best dealt with using loyalty issues. There are other methods too. One example is making boss Pokemon that are wilds "corrupted" or otherwise mystically immune to capture. It could also explain their strange level of strength, assuming you use the boss template.
I haven't personally considered adjusting the levels after capture, but it seems like a decent fix.

For me, catching the boss pokemon is often more about the rarity/coolness factor of the pokemon as opposed to its level and stats.

Given the choice between a level 5 dragon-type Growlithe and a level 30 Charizard, I'd pick the Growlithe every time.

Also, aside from movelists, I don't think I'd notice the level discrepancy. I'd have to be metagaming pretty hard to notice the difference of a few stat points.
Edited by Ursus the Grim, Jun 3 2014, 07:41 PM.
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Kaede11
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Hi again, just a last question:

I'll follow your advice and create encounters with larger groups of weaker pokemon. The question is simply how many pokemon should I create for each encounter on average. There are 5 trainers in the game... are 10 wilds too many?
Edited by Kaede11, Jun 4 2014, 11:54 PM.
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Kairose
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I would say 10 is probably around the highest you'd want to be for a 5-trainer party. I personally have a lot of random encounters, and for a party of 4, there are 2-8 wilds, depending on a die roll. If the levels are comparable (within ~5 levels), 2 ends up incredibly easy, 4 is about average, and 8 is a difficult battle where at least one mon will likely fall. Depending on exactly how much lower you go, it shouldn't be an issue, though.
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Brimcon
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Kaede11
Jun 4 2014, 11:17 PM
Hi again, just a last question:

I'll to follow your advice and create encounters with larger groups of weaker pokemon. The question is simply how many pokemon should I create for each encounter on average. There are 5 trainers in the game... are 10 wilds too many?
Having just had a session last week with such an encounter, I believe there was around 11 wilds in total, this included the boss, we have five trainers as well, and the average pokemon level was around 13 or so on our side (Wilds were 15, boss was around level 26). Needless to say a lot of experience was handed out. However, it is a good idea to have the "Boss" (In my case, a Houndoom) be immune to capture, fluff up the reasoning, covering themselves in flames at the sight of the Pokeball, using Dark Pulse to shoot it out of the way (Which would have happened, had we attempted to do so)

DM Fiat, Rule 0, or whatever you want to call it, can be an amazing thing if used right. Make it interesting for your players first and foremost.
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RockstarRaccoon
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Hex Maniacal!
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Quote:
 
Yesterday they found a nest of Chimchar in a volcano and when they approached the eggs five lvl 15 Monfernos tried to defend their babies.

...They stole parents from their babies? I would think that said Monfernos would HATE them. Remember that Pokemon are people too: they're their own characters with their own feelings, not just a fancy alternative to guns. It's cannon that alot of Pokemon are fine being captured because they get to pick some strong fights, but if they have something better to do than sit in a ball being carried around by some twerpy kid all day, they're not going to be too gung-ho about a capture.

This is where Loyalty 0 comes in: that Monferno better Flame Wheel its would-be-trainer the second they try to use it.

Here's an Example: I was working with some others to develop a linked PTA campaign, and I had the idea, "What if Team Rocket gets into a fight with Ho Oh?" Team Rocket doesn't bring ratatas to a fight with a legendary guardian. They bring rocket launchers. Now, should the players come across Ho Oh with critical injuries, they might decide to capture it, possibly because that's the quickest way to get it to a Pokemon Center. If the players have a level 60 Ho Oh on hand and only 4 gym badges, that's fine. It's not going to be interested in their petty trainer stuff anyway. In fact, the second they pull it out for something like that, it's gonna fly off. Conversely, they could always bring it to the Rocket Boss and watch the fireworks...
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Ursus the Grim
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RockstarRaccoon
Jun 12 2014, 06:45 AM
...They stole parents from their babies? I would think that said Monfernos would HATE them. Remember that Pokemon are people too: they're their own characters with their own feelings, not just a fancy alternative to guns. It's cannon that alot of Pokemon are fine being captured because they get to pick some strong fights, but if they have something better to do than sit in a ball being carried around by some twerpy kid all day, they're not going to be too gung-ho about a capture.
It is game canon that any wild pokemon will obey the PC that caught it, no matter the circumstances of its capture. You can argue if you want, but if I walked up to Arceus with a Master Ball and no badges, I'd have no problem controlling him. That is the precedent set by the games. I have several headcanon explanations for that.

A) You're literally beating the pokemon into submission. If you can take them low enough to capture them, they've been humbled.
B) The pokeball system placates them somehow.
C) They enjoy a good fight, and are able to gauge your heart and intentions through the battle and thus are won over.

Pick your poison, but this is the precedent set 18 years ago by the games before the other assorted media comes out. I've made my opinion on the anime clear before, so I'll just say that if you're deviating from the original source and its revisions, you need to make sure that everyone is aware of it before they take a STAB Flame Wheel to the face.

Edited by Ursus the Grim, Jun 12 2014, 07:01 AM.
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ItsyFabulousSpider
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Yes, but on page 188 of the core pdf, it discusses how caught Pokemon CAN start at loyalty 0 or 1 depending on the means of capture.
Quote:
 

In a more benign case, an especially powerful and feral
Pokémon that was caught by a stroke of luck could
begin at Loyalty 0 or even require a higher Command
Check than 20 to order in battle at first. The Trainer
would have to prove their worth in order to overcome
this obstacle.


and

Quote:
 

Pokémon who feel as if they were caught in an unfair or
undeserved manner may begin at Loyalty 1, particularly
if they are Pokémon that tend to have a strong sense of
honor, such as Gallade.


Obviously not everyone in a game will have read the entirety of the pdf, but, as many people have stated in many places, the tabletop is not an exact replica of the gameplay.
Edited by ItsyFabulousSpider, Jun 12 2014, 07:06 AM.
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Flamesoul32
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Except that's not the precedent set by the games 18 years ago. You would still need a number of badges decided by it's level in order to have it obey you...at least if you are going by strict cannon. I highly doubt you would find a low level Arceus.

I do however fully agree that you should make the tone of the game and certain expectations clear from the beginning so as not to surprise players in a nasty or unexpected way. Granted I tend to fall closer to RocketRaccoon's thought with my group; pokemon are to be treated as living beings. If you do something horrible to them don't expect it to obey you without earning that loyalty/obedience.

(Edit) And ItsyFabulousSpider beat me to the reply and with a reply that is a bit more direct to the statement. Bravo.
Edited by Flamesoul32, Jun 12 2014, 07:17 AM.
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